18:04:42 #startmeeting DebConf meeting 18:04:42 Meeting started Fri Dec 2 18:04:42 2011 UTC. The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:04:42 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:04:47 xamanu, :) 18:05:06 #topic DebConf12 local team updates 18:05:22 please tell us all your news :) 18:05:32 for those who haven't been following the local channel 18:06:11 http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20111202.151054.818f55ae.en.html 18:06:23 that was the last message to the list 18:06:36 that's pretty much what we have until now 18:06:56 we don't have final costs yet for venue/hotels 18:07:27 we will start negotiating with hotels/venue as soon we have sorted out what we need 18:07:48 right. the big change in there (for those who haven't seen) is that we noticed the planned main talk room was pretty small, the new set of rooms would have a main talk room for 200 people, which is a lot more 18:08:12 that's right 18:08:18 but people shouldn't just assume that the new plan is sensible, please raise issues now, or on the list, if you see them 18:08:29 we have three conference rooms right now 18:08:30 see http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Venue 18:08:57 iirc, 200 is about what Davis Auditorium seated in DC10 18:09:06 so i think that's O 18:09:07 OK 18:09:11 yes, that's typical for the last several years 18:09:35 I think those room sizes are ok 18:09:41 but what about hacklabs? 18:09:44 is it ok to have to the other ~50 rooms as well? 18:09:49 I don't know what size we actually had for second talk rooms recently, in terms of counts 18:10:00 tassia, four small offices for hacklabs 18:10:01 isn't it too small? at least on the image... 18:10:06 and we have two other rooms, telicas and maderas with 50 18:10:10 for hacklabs, note that the plan has 4 separate rooms, and I'm not sure if it's enough or not 18:10:24 tassia, I would say the capacity is about 80-100 people 18:10:29 (but also note that this place is rather expensive for renting rooms...) 18:10:32 tassia: there are four rooms, with a total capacity for 80 persons 18:10:41 moray: these are seperate rooms but all are connected directly through a door (which can be left opened) 18:10:56 right 18:11:02 n0rman: 25 persons each should get in there 18:11:04 tassia: I don't know what our hacklab seating capacity was this year, perhaps someone can guess better than me 18:11:10 xamanu: yes 18:11:27 dkg: what was hacklab seating capacity in DC10? 18:11:35 that would be nice to now, how many people we expect at the labs? 18:11:43 s/now/know 18:11:55 the proportions of this image is right? http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/File:Cccp02.png 18:12:06 tassia, yes 18:12:19 moray: I perceived the hacklabs quite bigger in bosnia than it would be in MGA... 18:12:20 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/VenueFacilities#What_we_have_so_far suggests 100 - 150 people in carleton lounge 18:12:57 and we had the comptuer science lounges (50-75) 18:13:30 an issue for both hacklabs and the previous talk room plan is that it's usually not practical to use the full room capacity 18:13:45 else people are sitting elbow-to-elbow, which doesn't work comfortably for long 18:13:54 yes 18:13:59 there are also questions of power consumption if we pack in like sardines 18:14:12 (how is the cooling in this building?) 18:14:13 and the rooms for the hacklabs are quite tiny 18:14:26 moray, the cooling system is excellent 18:14:30 what about arranging tables in the lobby are? 18:14:54 tassia, we can use the corridors, outside the rooms 18:15:10 tassia, but only on the days we rent them 18:15:11 I think we can work with 80-100 people comfortably for hacklabs. 18:15:37 tiago: I think it might work, *if* there are other spaces where people can hack too, nearby 18:15:45 yep 18:15:52 not just sitting on the floor in a corridor, but a bar etc. 18:16:05 in case that necessary: we could easily provide more space for hacklabs in the other hotel (Mansion Teodolinda) which is about 200mts from the main venue 18:16:23 yes, that's right 18:16:23 leogg: so lets agree with that? So you can make a more realistic local measure 18:16:25 leogg, that space in the middle is usefull? 18:16:42 tassia: I think that's the big talk room, that we aren't paying for 18:16:48 tiago, ack 18:16:48 leogg, I'm refering to the image http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/File:Cccp02.png 18:17:21 moray, ok 18:17:22 tassia: on Debian Day they are suggesting to take 1/3 of that, currently 18:17:32 tassia, you can fit a couple of tables outside La Vista and between LaVista and Telica/Maderas 18:17:35 but obviously we should check prices, in case we *can* take more... 18:17:41 xamanu: IMO it (=separate hacklabs) would be the last option 18:18:03 tassia: the big space in the middle are the big rooms from first floor. no usable from second floor level 18:18:23 tiago: I agree but it would be a possible fallback in case we run out of space with the 4 offices 18:18:28 xamanu, ok, now I undestand the image :-D 18:18:50 xamanu: sure 18:19:09 leogg: I guess that (as you are already trying) you should get better price information, then discuss more on the debconf-team list 18:19:20 moray, absolutely 18:19:22 it doesn't seem like we can make any firm decision without prices -- but it's good to get more people's input 18:19:31 right 18:19:52 we'll schedule another meeting with hotel/venue 18:20:07 you could also say something quickly on general local organisation status -- how you've been meeting, who's involved etc. 18:20:15 xamanu: is there any space outside where people could have a sit, drink and hack around this conference building? 18:20:32 tiago: in the hotel there are space for that 18:20:33 well 18:20:39 the hotel is in front of the venue 18:21:03 we have the team wiki over here ---> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Teams 18:21:14 meetings has been usually IRL 18:21:31 tiago: yes there is quite a lot of space. But it's hot here ;-) 18:21:45 we have enough people atm, but we're allways looking for more volonteers 18:21:55 there is actually a little plaza right next to the convention center 18:22:27 we had a couple of non-debconf related events recently, and we allways take the opportunity to talk about the event 18:22:37 and invite people to contribute 18:22:47 xamanu: thanks, even hot, being all the time inside is suffocating 18:23:10 I guess we need to work a bit more on that later on 18:23:30 we have a local mailing list and inviting basically all possible volunteers to join. Once tasks are ready to take them we can use this stack of people. 18:23:43 leogg: hm, can we get hacklabs with natural light (windows)? 18:23:54 or do they have it from above? 18:23:56 moray, I'm afraid not 18:24:07 unless we hire a bigger room 18:24:18 tiago: yes, indeed. The plaza is on the side of the smaller rooms so from there we should be able to get wifi coverage to the space outside 18:24:21 though I guess "no natural light" will reduce the overcrowding problem :) 18:24:43 moray, you always have the pool area at crowne plaza or mansion teodolinda as an option 18:25:01 leogg: sure, we want to keep people together though 18:25:20 leogg: we could think about conditioning the plaza a little bit (with some tents and chairs outside)... we should ask the people there about this. 18:25:48 the pool area at CP is quite large 18:25:48 xamanu: that would be great! 18:25:52 if you have just a fabric 'roof' without walls, it could be enough already 18:25:58 tents with walls will get hotter 18:25:59 we could easily fit 300 people there 18:26:05 but this would include an extra security guard outside 18:26:25 xamanu, you mean plaza maya? 18:27:01 is it plaza maya? this is the one from the commercial center, right? I mean the smaller one right on the side of the convention center 18:27:11 xamanu: yes, is plaza maya 18:27:17 ok :-) 18:27:25 * gwolf arrives and starts going through backlog 18:27:31 that's part of Plaza Inter, we will need to talk with them 18:27:31 plaza maya ---> https://gallery.debconf.org/v/dc12bids/managua/PC200818.JPG.html 18:27:51 plaza maya is right outside the venue 18:28:10 the venue is the white building 18:28:31 n0rman: yes, exactly. looks smaller in the photo though 18:28:38 ok, seems worth you investigating these possibilities 18:29:03 yep, it could be a solution 18:29:15 you have Plaza Inter food court too 18:29:29 I suspect the current hacklab rooms might (in total) be only about 1/3 the area we had this year 18:29:42 though I don't have the measurements to calculate the real numbers 18:29:55 going by the areas listed on your map, though 18:30:22 moray: you might be right... 18:30:33 any more local team points for now, or shall we try the other topics? 18:30:46 for internet connection we are waiting mail from Crowne IT Manager, who will help us to contact CLARO to get internet with them 18:31:31 lilix is checking the costs of the stands for the debian day and preparing the budget 18:31:46 right, lilix ? :) 18:31:47 is it a crazy idea asking someone from Banjaluka to measure DC10 hacklab spaces and send to us? 18:31:57 yes :) 18:31:58 s/DC10/DC11 18:31:59 n0rman: any news about the restriction to stay with them? I think this is one of the most important points right now, concerning the venue. 18:32:08 tiago: hm, we could try :) 18:32:18 xamanu: no, we don't have any news, still waiting mail from Crowne IT Manager 18:32:33 n0rman: we need to pressure here a little bit 18:32:36 yes, Crowne Plaza has some exclusivity contract with CLARO 18:32:51 leogg: so, could you put in the wiki the real measures for those 4 hacklabs' rooms? 18:33:12 tiago, sure! 18:33:30 leogg, just to check: are all those rooms wheelchair acessible? 18:33:45 tassia, the rooms at the venue, yes 18:33:48 tiago: you get get it roughly by adding Telica and Maderas (53+45 m2) 18:34:01 and then shrinking a bit... 18:34:08 tassia, at the hotel we have two accesible rooms 18:34:36 leogg, great 18:34:36 tassia, nomada had a meeting to check that with hotel... he will send his report to the list 18:34:38 tassia: I checked the plan earlier, there's a lift marked at least... 18:34:38 #action leogg will add hacklabs rooms measurements to wiki 18:34:49 tassia: yes, we have a meeting with hotel and a person from a accesibilty comission, we have numbers and other information, but nomada is not here :/ 18:34:58 right 18:35:02 leogg, what about these alternative spaces? 18:35:08 outside 18:35:14 we should probably deal with some of the other agenda items soon, or we'll overrun 18:35:22 n0rman, ok 18:35:24 (though I think this stuff is important) 18:35:42 tassia, there's a small ramp outside... let me see if I can take some photos for you 18:35:51 #topic Sponsorship levels 18:35:54 tassia: there are space in hotel, a lounge inside and the pool area that it can be used as alternative spaces 18:36:10 Is this agenda point meant to be discussing still, or approving something? 18:36:12 #info we estimate total space for 80-100 people confortably in the hacklabs 18:36:47 moray: the last thing that some people were agreed is about charge a extra fee for a stand during debian day 18:37:02 moray: I think this is to get some feedback from you. We need more concrete numbers, negotiate and check the contract they have with Claro before approving anything 18:37:22 ok -- but anything that we should/can decide 'now'? 18:37:36 lilix, what was the aprox. cost for renting the stands? 18:37:41 per day? 18:37:54 i would like that we can make a decision today 18:38:03 n0rman: right -- but I don't think we should worry about the exact level of the fee today 18:38:04 moray: which option of rooms we need... we have two proposals 18:38:17 moray: nop 18:38:31 and I see a consensus for the second option from http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Venue 18:38:39 but to approve the benefits per level on the sponsorship brochure http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/SponsorPack 18:38:57 xamanu: we are discussing about the sponsorshiplevels 18:39:02 xamanu: we're on the next agenda point now. but on that point, the answer was that we need better price information 18:39:11 sorry :-) 18:39:15 leogg $ 300 each stand! 18:39:47 can we stick to the generalities, and discuss the pricing levels/fees later on the list? 18:39:48 lilix: that's the rental fee for one day? 18:40:27 gwolf is for 1 to 5 days! 18:40:31 does anyone want to object to "Debian Day stands will have a separate fee, rather than be included in the sponsor levels"? 18:41:30 I think it should be an additional fee for the stands 18:41:42 lilix: on, nice/interesting. Thanks! :) 18:41:54 leogg: precisely, we have consensus in that regard 18:42:01 any objections? 18:42:10 only Debian Day stand? 18:42:15 the exact fees, like the exact levels, and whether you must sponsor as well before you qualify for a stand, is up to the sponsorship team 18:42:21 btw, we measured the spaces with lilix this weekend and there are enough space for four 2x2 stands 18:42:37 2x2 meters 18:42:52 #agreed Debian Day stands will have a separate fee, rather than be included in the sponsor levels 18:43:15 because i think Debian Day stand and Debian Day promootional material has to be togheter, or not? 18:43:23 would it be exclusive for sponsors? 18:43:30 n0rman: not _necessarily_ 18:43:40 tiago: i don't think so 18:43:45 tiago: I agree with moray. That should be discussed by the sponsorship team 18:43:51 right 18:43:53 n0rman: well, it might make sense, but the sponsorship team can decide :) 18:43:54 move on 18:44:03 #topic DebConf11 final report 18:44:19 ok, so at the last meeting there was meant to be a plan to finish that within a week or two 18:44:22 (cof cof) 18:44:23 Nattie and I are with this... 18:44:29 that's the meeting that was on 15 October 18:44:32 :) 18:44:36 moray: right :) 18:44:51 xamanu: ok, but is it really happening, or do we need new people on it before it does? 18:45:02 Nattie can not be here today. But I talked to here yesterday and she is reviewing the texts. I will set them together once they are ready 18:45:07 that's not a complaint, I just want to understand the problem 18:45:20 xamanu: could you link here the sources? 18:45:31 normally they all go into svn and everyone does proof-reading 18:45:34 she said that there are 3 text missing and she will have everything reviewed to the end of this week 18:45:45 then give me 2 or 3 days and I will have the doc ready 18:46:08 xamanu, do you have the layout ready? 18:46:09 xamanu: remember to upload the doc into the svn :) 18:46:14 xamanu: is it formatted aldeady? 18:46:21 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/FinalReport 18:46:32 some texts (f.e. from gwolf) got to us via email 18:46:40 xamanu: how come it's been so long though? is whatever-problem-there-was really solved now? 18:46:40 xamanu, it is easy to update/fix the text later on 18:46:42 it is not formatted already 18:47:14 even if it's late, it would still be sensible to put everything in svn where we can all help proof-read 18:47:15 yes we will use svn to archive the texts and the doc there 18:47:39 (not just for archiving once one person has checked it offline) 18:47:43 xamanu: please use the existing svn structure for that 18:47:49 layout from DC10 final report can be used? 18:48:07 n0rman: sure 18:48:08 xamanu: I still would like to hear what the problem was since 15 October 18:48:21 n0rman, sure, but it was made in scribus 18:48:22 but i rememeber xamanu would try latex for that 18:48:25 moray: that the texts aren't ready 18:48:43 xamanu: right, but the story then was that there would be a deadline a week or two later 18:48:51 i think there is a final report made in latex 18:48:53 formatting was a pain to me (DC10), it takes time 18:49:15 xamanu: and it seems all the texts aren't there still -- if they didn't come in 1 1/2 months, will they really come in the next few days? 18:49:29 moray: yes there was a deadline. but it could not been accomplished 18:49:29 n0rman: right, I think DC7's was made in TeX 18:49:45 xamanu: ping me if in case you need help formatting 18:49:46 xamanu: I can work with you if you want help LaTeXing them 18:49:55 anyway, on this: localteam, please realise that it's already getting rather late on this 18:50:12 gwolf, this would be fine. let's do that together 18:50:36 very soon all sponsors etc. will be shut down for Christmas I guess -- but many also prefer to set sponsorship the year before 18:50:38 (FWIW I mailed them to you as the wiki looked too preliminary) 18:50:42 and you tiago. If this speeds it up, would be good 18:50:56 but anyway I'm still waiting for the final versions of the texts 18:51:02 so I suggest that all localteam people push on getting the report done, however they can 18:51:07 gwolf, yes we got them 18:51:09 xamanu: ok 18:51:14 if you want a chance of getting enough sponsorship money in... 18:52:19 i'm a bit worried because i imagine local people have lots local's to do 18:52:25 #info xamanu and nattie are still working on the report, and the current estimate is to have a version ready in 10 days 18:52:33 we can work to make the layout so when texts are finished, just put the text 18:52:58 tiago: right. please push on it too if you can. but the evidence is that no one is caring enough about it currently :/ 18:53:23 yes. I will start a tex doc in svn so we can work together on the formatting 18:53:56 tiago: I guess putting out a preliminary version in October would have made the remaining people give their texts quickly 18:54:10 will try to put some effort on this, but please let's use either 2007 tex as template or DC10 scribus one 18:54:23 tiago: but if people don't see a sense of urgency, they'll just join in delaying 18:54:37 yes 18:55:04 maybe next time we need some beer incentive+penalty scheme for the report being early/late ;) 18:55:18 #topic DebConf13 schedule 18:55:22 tiago: right, we just need to make a copya of dc7 final report directory and start to work 18:55:24 :) 18:56:04 n0rman: /me doing it now 18:56:05 IMO we can only confirm the usual "DebConf13 bids by the end of the year" 18:56:17 and then set the rest of the schedule once we see the bids and talk to the teams 18:56:33 but I'm not sure if whoever added this agenda item had something else in mind? 18:57:05 Don't know either, but maybe we should ping the different bids to get their information together 18:57:16 gwolf: yes -- well volunteered! 18:57:18 so in early 2012 we can have our first comparison meeting 18:57:22 * gwolf takes note 18:57:37 #info gwolf contacts the DC13 bidders to get them to get their act together 18:57:44 thanks :) 18:58:04 #topic AOB/Next meeting 18:58:15 (grr, the wiki pages lists the names of the bidders, not their mails 18:58:16 debconf-data: 3 tiago committed revision 2934 to debconf-data: Adding DC11 final report dir. 18:58:16 debconf-data: files changed: A reports/dc11/ 18:58:17 debconf-data: A reports/dc11/readme.txt 18:58:19 that means work :( ) 18:58:23 Next meeting on 2 January? 18:58:31 or some other preference? 18:58:41 moray: I will be in Argentina until January 4 18:58:41 another doodle poll for a time around then? 18:58:50 moray: doodle 18:58:52 gwolf: they had internet in Argentina when I was there :) 18:58:53 quite probably I'll be in a bus or something like that 18:58:53 moray, doodle 18:58:57 moray, doodle 18:59:00 since key people are absent 18:59:01 moray: doodle 18:59:08 who knows how to use doodle? 18:59:14 tassia does 18:59:16 I prefered the old style where we had "yes/maybe/no" 18:59:21 rather than just yes/no as recently 18:59:34 I think it's choosable when you set up the poll 18:59:42 yes, it is 18:59:45 tiago, don't know advanced options 19:00:06 I can setup the poll and mail the list 19:00:10 ok, thanks 19:00:30 #info leogg will run another poll for the next meeting time, some date from 2 January on 19:00:33 great 19:00:58 anything else to be raised formally? please of course continue to discuss after the meeting, but our hour is up already :) 19:01:26 guess it's done :) 19:01:32 yup 19:01:35 #endmeeting