20:00:17 #startmeeting 20:00:17 Meeting started Tue Mar 29 20:00:17 2011 UTC. The chair is darst. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:17 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00:25 hi everyone 20:00:40 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Meetings#Global_Team_Meeting.2C_29_March_20:00_UTC is the meeting agenda 20:00:47 if you are here, please say hi 20:00:47 hi 20:00:55 * AbsintheSyringe *waves 20:00:56 hi 20:01:00 hi! 20:01:22 * karora looks up and waves to the crowd. 20:01:39 hi! 20:01:44 hi 20:02:19 anyone else?... 20:02:24 hi 20:02:39 * marga here 20:02:48 guys, i'm sick, and have some company atm 20:03:06 but i'll be here 20:03:08 hi 20:03:39 * aroundthfur taps vedran_omeragic on the head 20:04:16 #topic DC10 Final report status 20:04:27 #info done, thanks to tiago and tassia, but... 20:04:47 #info We are waitingon DC9 surplus information to add the last bits in, but is usuable for sponsor-finding now 20:05:11 anything more? 20:05:16 #topic Sponsorship team status 20:05:20 anyone have questions here? 20:05:33 not atm 20:05:54 there is something about local media coverage? 20:05:57 vedran_omeragic, you said you have the leaflet done? 20:06:10 i havetext 20:06:13 we can't have questions about this until we have the thing signed between diva and spi and ffis 20:06:20 template is not yet done 20:06:27 AbsintheSyringe, why not? 20:06:35 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsorship/MediaCoverage 20:06:50 mainly because we can't go looking for money 20:07:03 AbsintheSyringe, you don't have to know where the money goes to ask people if they want to give it 20:07:07 * bdale is lurking 20:07:08 AbsintheSyringe, we can go look for it.. 20:07:23 we are not getting the money on the same day anyway.. 20:07:31 in one of the previous meetings someone told me not to ask money until we got the diva thing sorted 20:07:36 AbsintheSyringe: indeed, you can always go looking for money 20:07:40 k 20:07:43 problem solved 20:07:44 Looking for money takes a long time. 20:08:25 tell them they can give in either euro to a german nonprofit, or a bosnian NGO (probably), and it will be ready by then 20:08:30 this is what we said in the last meeting, too 20:08:36 k 20:08:41 well, if anyone raised the objection or knows what it is, they should explain 20:09:00 btw, hi 20:09:15 or USD to SPI 20:09:28 vedran_omeragic: quickly reading that page, it looks doable 20:09:55 darst, I wasn't planning on doing it like a brochure (A4 format) 20:09:58 rather something smaller 20:10:01 and a good start 20:10:45 with the aim of sending a clear message 20:11:00 since this is mostly for local media 20:11:19 all I can say is keep working on it and mail -tema if you have any questions, but it is good 20:11:26 is that what you want to know? 20:11:27 we'll have to clarify the difference between regular sponsors and and media 'partners' 20:11:42 yeah, that's pretty much it 20:12:07 #info vedran_omeragic working on MediaCoverage handout to give to various local media outlets 20:12:22 #topic Local updates - accommodation 20:12:38 #info We can get 160 beds at 38 €/night at Hotel Bosna 20:12:46 I sent the email regarding accommodation 20:12:49 AbsintheSyringe, what more to say here? 20:12:52 and regarding the food 20:13:03 I changed my mind and will go to Banja Luka tomorrow after all 20:13:10 I'm planning to talk to another hotel 20:13:15 and I'm planning to get a really good price 20:13:21 #info we also have an offer of dorms that are 1.5 km away for free 20:13:32 yea 20:13:39 dorms are great, because they are pretty far away 20:13:42 given that we have a large amount from the government, enough to easily afford these hotels 20:13:45 actually they are not, it's a nice walk 20:13:57 I think we should go with the hotels 20:13:58 but we were planning to have shuttles leaving every morning after breakfast towards the venue 20:13:59 other opinions? 20:14:25 heh I was saying that from the very beginning :) 20:14:30 AbsintheSyringe: how can dorms be great because they are far away? 20:14:36 from my understanding, closer together is always better 20:14:41 but now we might have a problem because we need to book them fast 20:15:00 AbsintheSyringe: "far away" is NOT an advantage, and 1.5km sounds way too much. 20:15:04 marga, I meant as they are good, they are not trashy in taht sort of way 20:15:14 after this meeting we can book them 20:15:35 any objections to hotels? 20:15:37 AbsintheSyringe: could you please clarify the availability of lodging places in the different locations? 20:15:42 (I wish more global people were here) 20:15:49 marga, I understood that from very beginning and when I said let's go with hotels certain members said no, now don't go all that I'm the one who's pro for dorms 20:16:07 darst, yes, we would need to book Bosna by 05-th 20:16:10 04th is the last day 20:16:11 marga, from my understanding then we will get more rooms in other nearby hotels, to get more than 160 beds 20:16:20 I'm sorry I was not there at the moment, but I guess it was related more to costs than to the fact that they were hotels. 20:16:44 yea 20:16:49 listen we'll do it like this 20:16:52 I'm going to banja luka tomorrow 20:16:53 AbsintheSyringe: so, could you please clarify the different options? Please? 20:17:01 I'll talk to two more hotels see how much room we can get 20:17:04 and by a cheap price 20:17:17 all those who can't fit in those hotels will go to dorms and case closed? 20:17:20 im pro dorms also 20:17:45 * tiago here 20:17:46 marga, there are hotels, a lot of them and dorms 20:17:47 * marga shrugs. 20:17:56 I propose we resere the 160 rooms, and then work getting similar prices for other hotels nearby 20:18:00 marga, I'm not sure I understood the question :-/ 20:18:11 and dorms are always another option 20:18:11 darst, yes that's the plan 20:18:16 yep 20:18:18 backup plan 20:18:35 basically, take what we can, and then find overflow (more flexible with regards to number of people) 20:18:36 AbsintheSyringe: please don't "case close" anything before sharing details. 20:18:51 bosna needs to be booked by the 4th of april? 20:19:01 Clint, 5th 20:19:02 AbsintheSyringe: it's really very important to have things as close as possible. Being 1.5km away is really TOO far for DebConf distances. 20:19:25 marga, I know 20:19:29 please understand the following 20:19:36 I was always PRO hotels and the closer the better 20:19:42 AbsintheSyringe: so, if you go hunting for hotels, please inform the team about your hunting results, including amount of bed, price, distance to the main venue, before "case closing" anything. 20:19:43 are there any objections to what AbsintheSyringe and I proposed above ? 20:19:52 then CERTAIN members started complaining on its prices that made me look for FREE alternative 20:20:00 so please accusing me as it was my idea 20:20:11 AbsintheSyringe: I'm not accusing you of anything. 20:20:12 marga, will do 20:20:15 can we agree to reserve 160 and then more space when we can 20:20:18 you are doing a lot, don't worry about acusations 20:20:25 &8'D 20:20:33 because 20:20:34 AbsintheSyringe: I was not there. I'm just asking you to not "case close" before telling the global team about it. 20:20:36 if we agreed on that one 20:20:39 I would do that tomorrow 20:20:42 reserve Bosna 20:20:46 and talk to the other two hotels 20:20:50 when do we need to pay if we reserve bosna? 20:20:53 is that 80 rooms or what? 20:20:59 yes, I guess it's ok to reserve those 160 beds. 20:21:08 darst, not sure, later on 20:21:11 marga, no body is case closing anything 20:21:19 and if you reserve, can you figure out how many total beds and total rooms we'll have? 20:21:28 we always report back to global team and then decide together! 20:21:29 :) 20:21:30 Yes, please 20:21:31 marga, I meant it more hypothetically 20:21:32 don't worry! 20:21:50 #agreed Reserve the 160 beds(rooms?) in hotel bosna, look for more hotels in the area 20:21:51 is there public transportation from the dorms (1.5 kms) to the venue? 20:21:52 and the 38€ is without food? 20:21:57 darst, well I'll ask them that, they told me that they would give me that info letter on 20:22:14 edgar, we would have private shuttles from dorms to venue after breakfast 20:22:23 Clint, breakfast 20:22:26 yep, i heard that, thx, 20:22:34 #action AbsintheSyringe seeks total number of beds and total number of rooms in this reservation ASAP 20:22:48 great 20:22:51 i was just curious about public transportation because you cant run shuttles all day, can you? 20:23:24 personally, i love to walk, i am just exploring the situation thouroughly 20:23:29 there's public transportation 20:23:31 AbsintheSyringe: can you make them tell us number of rooms and beds when reserving? 20:23:35 they wouldn't run all day 20:23:57 darst, yea, I'm planning to ask them how many rooms/double/single are we getting for those 160 beds 20:23:58 cool, thx! 20:23:59 #idea hold another meeting before April 4th about this, having the whole information about hotels, costs, location, etc 20:24:16 not necessary if you ask me 20:24:33 as I'll report back with direct info on costs of those hotels 20:24:34 AbsintheSyringe: can you tell them we want them, but want details before we sign anything? 20:24:35 AbsintheSyringe: what is not necessary? 20:24:50 darst, sure 20:24:54 but you are negotiating with hotels on next days 20:25:09 I'm negotiating tomorrow 20:25:14 jaqm, he's going to BL tomorrow 20:25:17 so yes 20:25:18 AbsintheSyringe, and then send us the info and we'll do final approval 20:25:19 we can have meetings regarding the other hotels not Bosna 20:25:35 we need to reserve Bosna by 5th and I'd rather do that asap instead of waiting for last day to do it 20:25:36 ok 20:25:56 darst, ok 20:26:03 #info AbsintheSyringe will tell hotel we want rooms, but not sign or pay until we get info 20:26:17 #topic Local info - food 20:26:33 AbsintheSyringe, anyone can eat at bosna, even people not in the hotel, correct ? 20:26:41 yea 20:26:57 #info Everyone can eat in bosna, even thouse not staying there 20:26:58 so we'll just make that default eating place? 20:27:24 can you ask them: can you accept money from people yourselves, and they can eat? 20:27:38 and ask them: how much in advance do you need to know the number of people per day? 20:28:06 it would also be good to know how many meals they are able to prepair per day 20:28:09 darst, please clarify the first question 20:28:31 AbsintheSyringe: Can they accept payment for those who are not sponsored for food. 20:28:34 AbsintheSyringe: how are we going to manage paying for the meals. 20:28:40 first question is: will they have a cash register that can take money and let people in, if they don't have our meal ticket 20:29:06 just to be sure that everyone will be able to eat there... 20:29:06 well this is how I was planning it 20:29:23 when sponsored people are getting rooms, they have option if they are getting food as well 20:29:43 later on when we are giving them accreditation it'll say if they can eat or not 20:29:58 if they can't then they'll be able to pay for their own food by the costs we previously agreed to 20:30:23 AbsintheSyringe: who checks if they "can" or "can't" ? 20:30:36 can't we do the same thing as in NYC last year? 20:30:46 someone at the entrance? 20:30:53 marga, we'll appoint someone at the entrance.. 20:30:54 even though I don't think that'll be necessary 20:31:05 because we'll have swedish tables and there'll be plenty of food 20:31:14 how many days in advance will we have to tell the food service people how many meals to make? 20:31:27 again 20:31:36 darst, we were thinking we make a buffet.. 20:31:42 it'll be swedish tables, with variety of food every different day 20:31:44 so no nr of meals.. 20:31:49 AbsintheSyringe, I agree completely with the not checking 20:32:10 DC10 was a buffet, but they still need to know how much to make 20:32:19 so you eat as much sa you want 20:32:35 so the hotel will make "enough" food, and it doesn't matter how many people come? 20:32:36 well I could ask them because when I asked him this he said there's no problem there'll be more then plenty of food 20:32:45 all based on how many people are eating, total number 20:32:46 darst, yes but it doesn't have to be an exact number 20:32:57 200 vs 300 is a big difference 20:33:05 well we'll have those numbers 20:33:10 well yes 20:33:12 by 15-10 is nothing 20:33:18 but we can always say a day before.. 20:33:21 you know something like 20:33:27 on average tehre should be 300 people eating here 20:33:30 just make sure that the hotel really will deal with any number of people, and we only pay for who goes in, with no advance notice, and we will be good to go 20:33:31 well, the crux of the question seems to be: how important is excluding those who are not sponsored? 20:33:33 aroundthfur / AbsintheSyringe: having someone at the entrance is very tiring for volunteers, it's best if we can avoid that, and let that job be done by someone from the hotel itself. 20:34:06 and make sure there is no risk to us if fewer (or more) people come (financial risk, and also running out of food risk) 20:34:11 marga, that could be arranged 20:34:30 I think whole idea of having "food cops" is lame 20:34:37 i agree 20:34:38 if you got food you can go in there 20:34:43 if not don't be an idiot and go in there to eat 20:34:55 is the hotel OK with us paying for 300 people and then not checking that only 300 peolpe come in? 20:35:01 if I didnt have paid food I wouldn't just go in there to eat 20:35:01 which is why im asking, who really cares about excluding the unauthorised? 20:35:03 AbsintheSyringe, there's always idiots around :) 20:35:08 but i agree with you! 20:35:21 darst, yea I think so 20:35:24 previously they had 20:35:38 600 people for that rafting championship I really doubt they were checking people 20:35:55 maybe you wouldnt, absinthe, but someone will, the point is, does it bother you if a few people sneak in? 20:36:11 president of hotel told me, they get enough food, what hurts him the most is that most of that food gets thrown away in the end 20:36:14 edgar: only if we have to pay for them 20:36:19 People with non-sponsored food have various reasons for making that choice. Some of them will certainly be expecting/wanting to eat with the sponsored attendees but to pay for the privilege each time they do so. 20:36:20 so I wouldn't have any coppers looking who can eat and can't 20:36:33 it doesn't bother me if the hotel pays for the extra food, as long as they know they are taking taht risk 20:36:34 edgar, 5 per meal is not a lot? 20:36:39 indeed 20:36:41 anyway,let's have adnan clarify this tomorrow 20:36:42 and go on 20:37:09 #info AbsintheSyringe will check tomorrow with hotel about food service arrangements per previous conversation 20:37:10 I realize the hotel calculates they can feed as much people as they can host, but it seems that at the venue will be people hosted in others places, maybe they won't expect +160 people 20:37:15 i agree that we shouldnt have the cops! im just saying that people who dont agree should justify why its so important to exclude the freeloaders 20:37:47 If it helps fund debconf, we should sell meal tickets. 20:37:54 no 20:38:02 That's why I would choose to not have sponsored food. 20:38:06 edgar: it is not important to us, it is presumably important to the hotel, and we don't want to show up and have the hotel blame us for letting too many people in 20:38:06 if someone feels that they cant pay for the food, and need to sneak in, they probably really need it 20:38:07 I hate food tickets 20:38:14 please lets not have food tickets 20:38:20 I mean 20:38:29 that's just going to cause chaos among so many people 20:38:35 then it's not cops, then it's FBI 20:38:44 ok, darst, i get that, good point, but if were paying for all the food, presumably they wouldnt object 20:38:44 AbsintheSyringe: how is the hotel going to charge us for the meals? 20:39:02 also, not everyone will eat at the hotel for every mean - we don't want to pay if sponsored people choose to not to eat at the hotel a certain day 20:39:14 marga, we'll pay for XXX number of people that will eat there and charge us by the number of people 20:39:54 darst, well someone might come in for free meal, while the other one is out eating somewhere else 20:39:59 edgar: that's why they presumably want to know how many people will be there, sothey can prepare enough... DC10, that cafeteria hosted > 1000 people per day, and they _still_ wanted to know within 10-15 people how many would be there 20:40:02 so in the end the number should balance itself out 20:40:03 if that is the case i can almost garantee that the hotel will ask for the policing, at least if its like any hotel ive known 20:40:16 we're making it complicated without reason 20:40:21 next topic? 20:40:28 AbsintheSyringe: talk to the hotel and see how flexible they are, and report back to us 20:40:32 darst, ;) 20:40:35 #topic Local updates - venue 20:40:36 AbsintheSyringe: so, how is that number of people going to be counted? 20:40:55 AbsintheSyringe: the other day, was it hotel staff or venue staff who said we shouldn't eat in the venue? 20:40:56 marga, by number of people who register for food sponsored/non sponsored in penta 20:41:06 darst, city 20:41:18 ok, that was my main question 20:41:23 any other venue updates? 20:41:34 nope 20:41:45 meals topic seemed to not be finished, we need to back on it later 20:41:47 didn't think so, but that's OK - as long as we have it, we are good 20:42:00 we have it 20:42:05 tiago, yes, but we need info... don't think there is much more progress there 20:42:09 I'm also planning to meet with mayor tomorrow, to conclude that one 20:42:13 #topic Registration plan 20:42:20 and have the venue given to us, and signed on paper that we have it 20:42:27 well 20:42:34 the plan was to start registrations on 1st 20:42:34 AbsintheSyringe, can you comment on how possible this is: 20:42:35 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Registration#Reserving_your_own_accommodations_.28unsponsored.2FCorporate_attendees.29 20:42:46 darst: ok, just to register we didn't decided yet for free meals for everyone 20:43:34 tiago, no 20:43:53 we will continue the discussion after we have more info 20:44:37 yea 20:44:40 this looks good 20:44:59 can you ask the hotel how they will handle it? 20:45:20 will that count as part of our rooms, or be in addition to our rooms? 20:45:27 no 20:45:32 that will count as part of our rooms 20:45:39 that's why I said give them the price we got for sponsored 20:45:43 I already asked him that 20:45:55 and if one of those people doesn't show up, who pays for the room? 20:46:22 I guess we do 20:46:28 but imagine this scenario 20:46:45 if we are already paying for the rooms I mean it would suck if we lose them and they are so close 20:46:50 let's say we get another hotel 20:47:00 and we have 300 beds in total 20:47:11 more people register, and we start placing them in dorms or whatever 20:47:14 if someone cancels 20:47:21 you just tell someone from dorms would you like to move to hotel 20:47:26 I'm sure many people would like to hear that 20:47:33 right, yes, that is possible 20:47:42 just send an email on mailing list it should be occupied in matter of minutes 20:47:45 go with that one then? 20:47:52 and if dorms are free, that doesn't cost us anything 20:48:02 dorms will be free 20:48:11 at least 100-120 beds 20:48:12 as of now 20:48:20 and yea they won't cost anything 20:48:29 except the shuttles 20:48:30 but - marga, etc, said that dorms would probably be too far, so we should do more hotels instead 20:48:33 which I agree with 20:48:36 yea 20:48:42 we are going with hotels 20:48:47 I'm just saying in case we 20:48:48 get 20:48:51 even if we get 3 hotels 20:48:53 and we place 20:48:58 400 people in there 20:49:11 hypothetically if more people signs up we should place them in dorms 20:49:16 because it would cost too much money 20:49:36 but maybe it's just ridiculous to talk about this since it's "out of reach" right now 20:49:44 that is we haven't got all the hotels situation sorted 20:49:51 let's talk about this once we have all the hotels reserved 20:50:00 and we have the final number of beds/single/double 20:50:03 ok? 20:50:30 I am still wary until we know how things will work 20:50:43 what things? 20:51:04 listen 20:51:06 would any of you 20:51:11 I actually talked to govt regarding this 20:51:19 would any of you like to come here and check it out all? 20:51:28 so you could get a better picture of how it's all planned 20:51:33 * tiago leaving to class,sorry 20:51:40 I mean I can't even figure out how you picture bosnia, so this might help 20:51:45 that would help, but I can't right now 20:51:58 maybe email the mailing list? 20:51:59 * tassia also leaving for class 20:52:00 but perhaps someone from europe could go and it would help a lot - it helped with DC9 20:52:04 Yes. 20:52:11 Maybe moray 20:52:17 who here is closest to bosnia? 20:52:20 yep, h01ger ? 20:52:21 unless they want to pay for transatlantic flight for me, but that is excessie 20:52:26 He's been involved with DC11 and is closer than darst :) 20:52:39 Or holger, yes 20:52:40 yea 20:52:47 moray and/or h01ger 20:52:59 * karora volunteers :-) 20:53:13 but a lot of this would be them talking to these same venues and sorting out details which we haven't been able to get in IRC 20:53:18 (that's a joke, btw) 20:53:27 AbsintheSyringe, could the gov provide funding to do this? 20:53:48 I don't know, could ask, because I'll be seeing the minister tomorrow 20:53:49 or would it come out of what they have given us? 20:53:54 or that 20:53:55 :) 20:54:07 it would still be reasonable to come out of what they have given us 20:54:08 Ok, please try to find out, I think it's a good idea. 20:54:18 I'll talk to them tomorrow regarding this 20:54:26 ok, sounds good 20:54:40 (moray and I had actually talked of that earlier, in the event I end up in europe this summer) 20:54:58 back to registration 20:55:04 yea, I remember telling you to come here and check it out even before we got the bid 20:55:09 i just created initial dc11 entr yin pentabarf. 20:55:18 \o/ 20:55:34 darst, ok I'll have that arranged 20:56:13 AbsintheSyringe, if you could make some sort of page describing who goes where, who registers where, and who pays for what, then we can be confident in the plan 20:56:57 but until we have instructions for professional peolpe, we can't open registration 20:57:03 What about people, who might get sponsored for debconf, but not for debcamp? 20:57:22 urbec, what do you mean? 20:57:31 urbec: good point... 20:57:53 should there be a different procedure? 20:58:12 people attending debcamp and are not sponsored for this, eg volunteers. 20:58:12 urbec: I would probably say simplest is that they register as sponsored, and we ask for a "donation"/payment for the debcamp portion... 20:58:21 yea, we really need to come up with plan for that 20:58:26 for example 20:58:45 since they are connected enough to be sponsored for the conf itself 20:58:46 once the person pays for accommodation by the price he got (our price) where is that money going to 20:58:51 us, or hotel, I guess it would be us 20:59:07 I guess the best way to solve tihs one is 20:59:22 by starting discussion on mailing lists since we could all hear all kind of suggestions 21:00:19 these things are what we need to know to open registration... 21:00:29 and thus we need a plan soon 21:00:40 ok 21:00:53 who will volunteer to start discussion on the mailing list asking all these questions 21:00:54 I am wondering if we just have to go with the DC9/DC10 system and abandon the reserve-with-hotel-directly until DC12 21:01:03 I believe we could solve most of these pretty quickly 21:01:08 marga: --^ 21:01:21 or that 21:01:29 darst: reserving with hotel directly has advantages and disadvantages. 21:01:45 Adv: we don't handle the money 21:01:46 since most global team wanted pay-hotel-directly was what most peolpe had wanted, I don't want to abandon it so fast 21:02:04 Disadv: it's extra hassle for attendees 21:02:14 Adv: we don't have to deal with where everyone goes. 21:02:25 darst, why do we have to have a different procedure for debcamp? 21:02:25 darst, in the worst case scenario we could just act as a proxy for everyone.. 21:02:25 we will just appoint some more ppl for that task.. 21:02:28 Adv: we don't have to be a travel agent when things change 21:02:28 it should be doable.. 21:02:33 Disadv: people have to find a roommate or else the hotel finds one for them 21:03:10 darst: I'm not really inclined toward one or the other... 21:03:18 I propose we delay this discussion to the mailing list, and force a decision within 48 hours 21:03:29