19:59:59 #startmeeting 19:59:59 Meeting started Thu Mar 24 19:59:59 2011 UTC. The chair is h01ger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:59:59 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00:35 #topic please say hi if you intend to work on (getting) sponsorship and say a bit more than "hi" if we dont know you :-D 20:00:49 hi 20:00:50 * h01ger says hi 20:00:54 hi 20:00:58 hi 20:00:59 hi.. 20:00:59 hi but barely 20:01:11 hello/ 20:01:36 * AbsintheSyringe *waves 20:01:49 so we have at least 7 people, whohooo :) 20:02:01 anyone from Debian here to help? 20:02:12 #topic agenda - please continue to say hi 20:02:20 hi 20:02:45 current agenda is media sponsor, sponsorship level, sponsorship strategy paper & documentaion, payments and check if drdub is still alive 20:02:45 hi! 20:03:02 the last topic has already+thankfully been resolved positivly ;) 20:03:14 any other topics? 20:03:59 possibly acknowledging long-time sponsors 20:03:59 seems not.. 20:04:00 i'd add agreement paper between diva+debian, though there is not so much to discuss IMO, but anyway.. (there is just work to do on it) 20:05:23 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Meetings#Sponsorship_Team_Meeting.2C_24_March_20:00_UTC updated, please check 20:05:51 looks good to me... 20:06:08 mhm 20:06:25 ok, so let's get this party started? 20:06:26 looks ok 20:06:28 if you have additions to the agenda, please edit the wiki _and_ tell me 20:06:42 #topic sponsorship levels 20:06:52 actually as i understand it, this has been done and we can move on 20:06:57 ok, I thought these were concluded 20:07:02 does everybody know where to find the levels we agreed on? 20:07:04 me too :S 20:07:09 yup 20:07:11 agreed, move on 20:07:13 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsors 20:07:15 please post the url here 20:07:16 thanks 20:07:35 * h01ger still cant type and is using the mouse with the left hand... 20:07:41 or http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship.xhtml 20:07:57 so.. 20:08:02 #topic media sponsor 20:08:03 looks good 20:08:06 h01ger, ouch.. 20:08:07 i'm slightly concerned that we won't get any gold 20:08:28 ok, since it was our goal to make sure that everybody knows about this conference in whole region 20:08:30 why so? 20:08:35 we need support from media 20:08:38 Clint, we had this. but platinium is better anywaay :) 20:08:41 what kind of question is that? 20:08:52 AbsintheSyringe, wait just a minute more.. 20:08:56 so you spread awareness about open source/linux? 20:09:10 ? 20:09:19 AbsintheSyringe, sure, we need/want media as sponsors. but do we need a special category? 20:09:42 * h01ger would value their sponsorship and put them in the normal categories, and done 20:09:49 not sure if we need a special category, all I know is that we need these people, and ther'es a lot of them offering their services to us 20:09:54 there's no fair way to value their sponsorship 20:10:03 it's not even possible 20:10:06 Clint, same with 20 donated foneras 20:10:13 s/same/similar/ 20:10:22 for example, the news papers that offered us to put our ads in their news papers 20:10:25 and write articles about it 20:10:31 there's no way you can value that 20:10:34 * h01ger would suggest to value their value on a case by case basis 20:10:38 I have been a strong supporter of the media sponsorship category but it seems people this year don't like the idea 20:10:46 i'm also in favor 20:10:51 it is used in other conferences 20:10:58 it simplifies things a lot 20:11:03 so any media is a media sponsor? NYT and my blog alike? 20:11:05 doing things in a case by case basis is bad 20:11:19 it is a recipe for pissing off sponsors 20:11:28 h01ger problem is that some guys here have a wrong definition of a media sponsor 20:11:41 * h01ger is open for suggestions 20:11:46 h01ger, we were thinking more about practical media sponsors as in TV, Magazines and Newspapers 20:12:38 h01ger: case by case is tough to ensure we make similar decisions over the years 20:12:43 and depending on people 20:12:46 we need to put it as simple as possible, we need local media for advertising of dc11 in bosnia and region 20:12:58 hi, sorry I'm late 20:13:01 we have a chance to promote dc11 on a national tv, and in several newspapers 20:13:05 local media will offer free advertising + reports, etc 20:13:20 * h01ger shrugs. same thing. so you would put an ad / article in the new york times in the same boat as one in the banja luka linux magazine? (no offense intented, i just dont believe one extra categoriy will cut it. or do you suggest 5 media sponsor categories?) 20:13:26 if DrDub likes the idea I am generally in support 20:13:41 that is why it is called "local media" 20:13:47 not global media or anything like that 20:14:11 we dont have dedicated os/linux media anyway 20:14:14 but we do have tech media 20:14:21 + mainstream naturally 20:14:31 the key for media sponsorship is to put a threshold in impact 20:14:37 number of viewers / readership 20:14:40 of course 20:14:47 if it is a super famous blog, then sure, why not 20:15:07 heh 20:15:12 i agree 20:15:13 are you suggesting one category for media (like gold) or 5 (like steel to platinium)? 20:15:14 it usually go both ways. I don't expect Joey Hess will want to appear as a media sponsor by mentioning the conference in his blog 20:15:22 tv is a completely different category then blog don't you think? 20:15:49 i think giving advertising space is different from doing a story 20:16:13 Clint: yes, you're righ. I got confused 20:16:22 for keeping it simple, id like to have only one category for local media, we are not aiming for dozens of media sponsors, but rather those who are willing to promote the conference for free and offer other benefits 20:16:31 if you dont have congrete proposals for this (ie answering my questions) i suggest to postpone this topic and continue when there are some concrete proposals. atm we're discussing "acknowleding sponsors is good". i would like to know how 20:16:48 I said it like three times already 20:16:49 so "local media sponsors"? 20:16:54 yeah 20:16:57 can't postpone it anymore 20:17:00 we've been talking about this 20:17:01 for months now 20:17:02 and blogs are no media? 20:17:04 people want to help us 20:17:05 my take is: you don't give money you are not called sponsor. Is tehre another word in english we can use for "medi non-sponsor"? 20:17:07 media and local media sounds good 20:17:08 media 20:17:17 and we keep pushing them away, that's just ridiculous 20:17:20 * h01ger likes what amaya just said 20:17:37 h01ger: blogs are media, but as Clint says we care about ads in there 20:17:44 can we call it "media coverage"? 20:17:48 doesnt matter if it is a blog, tv, radio, paper or whatever -what matters is their influence and readership as DrDub suggested 20:17:51 aroundthfur: I like that 20:17:53 yea 20:17:54 aroundthfur, sounds good/better 20:17:55 media coverage 20:17:57 that's awesome! 20:18:00 so if they are willing to run an ad for us and we like it, then sure 20:18:02 aroundthfur, *kissy kissy :) 20:18:09 i mean that is what is in my head all of this time 20:18:14 i tried saying it 20:18:15 media coverage is what we could go for 20:18:18 amaya: these ads mean $$$ for us through exposure for sponsors 20:18:29 but was explaining it wrong i guess 20:18:36 DrDub: but it is not sponsoring itself 20:18:44 * amaya looks for words 20:18:45 why should it? 20:18:50 it is not a practice 20:18:53 almost anywhere 20:18:54 #info "media sponsors" should be "local media sponsors" should be retitled to "(local) media coverage" 20:19:07 amaya: this is about money, really, not semantics 20:19:17 shall that become "official local media coverage"? 20:19:22 h01ger, but now i think we dont need local/global media coverage.. 20:19:25 if you are giving free ad which costs some actual money, arent you already sponsoring? 20:19:27 one is enough or not? 20:19:52 EnisDonKing, they dont give us money. they give us things which are nice but which we can live without 20:20:03 well, you are wrong there 20:20:14 pissing off sponsors vs giving sponsors media coverage 20:20:19 we dont want to host a conference here with 100 people who come to dc's regulary 20:20:26 but also to other tech people from this country 20:20:27 and region 20:20:55 #topic local media coverage: requirements and benefits - should we include them in the brochure? 20:21:07 EnisDonKing: those people are already reading tech blogs and such and it's easy to reach them (IMHO) 20:21:17 and 5 more minutes on this topic, than we'll need to move on. details can be discussed on the list or later here 20:21:28 well, I dont agree, being here probably the only one who actually runs a media company 20:21:31 I wouldn't include local media in the -en brochure 20:21:49 neither would I 20:21:50 DrDub, i agree on that 100% 20:22:07 what about making a small 'leaflet' for media coverage 20:22:09 ?? 20:22:12 we need their partnership to reach people we cannot reach through usual channels 20:22:15 EnisDonKing, keep in mind its the debian _developers_ conference. media coverage is not really why we meet, we want to develop debian. (which includes some media coverage but its less important for us then for other meetings) 20:22:16 instead of a brochure 20:22:35 I agree, however 20:22:40 vedran_omeragic, small "leaflet" sounds like a good idea 20:22:47 there are devs all around who are not developing for Debian yet 20:22:50 EnisDonKing: then what's your approach? my "semantic" problem is we have several categories of sponsors, what is wrong if we call the media "media sponsors" instead of "gold sponsors"? 20:22:57 but we would like them to get there and see whats all about 20:22:59 EnisDonKing, sure thing! we do want to reach them! 20:23:06 there you go 20:23:14 2 more minutes... 20:23:31 amaya: sorry, I missed that part. So we're not calling then media? we call them gold? /me doesn't like 20:23:42 ok, then renaming the media sponsors to media coverage and having "leaflet" 20:23:47 why are we arguing when we already made a solution? 20:23:48 we have a global team meeting in 5 days were the proposal can be presented and further defined. 20:23:55 OK, OK, I have 158 mails to read, I know :-S 20:24:06 that's it 20:24:16 if what I just said above concludes it, move on 20:24:17 DrDub, those old mails are not that important... read previous meeting logs / summaries 20:24:20 DrDub: I thought we were calling them media sponsors, a different category from $METAl sponsors 20:24:22 h01ger, ^ 20:24:29 h01ger: thanks 20:24:32 AbsintheSyringe, it doesnt conclude it. it defines what needs to be done 20:24:39 and I don't want to discuss this any furtehr either :) 20:24:41 h01ger, good enough 20:24:43 amaya: oh, good. I am all for that 20:24:50 DrDub: then we agree :) 20:25:00 #info local media coverage needs to be defined further and discussed at the next global team meeting in 5 days 20:25:04 who will do that ^^ 20:25:07 ? 20:25:20 EnisDonKing, you wanna do that? 20:25:28 (ie _prepare_ the leaflet.,..) 20:25:37 vedran_omeragic, you the leaflet? 20:25:40 will do 20:25:44 h01ger: let's have also gold, silver and such media sponsors, depending on their involvement 20:25:47 I could also copy what I've already said here 20:25:51 i can help 20:26:09 #info vedran_omeragic and EnisDonKing will prepare definition and benefits of "local media coverage" for the next meeting 20:26:15 EnisDonKing, we can do this together.. 20:26:20 ^great 20:26:23 let's move on? 20:26:26 #topic basic workflow we had last year 20:26:27 mhm 20:26:43 so... last year we worked like this: 20:27:03 people regularily working on sponsorship, hang out on #debconf-sponsors 20:27:28 correct 20:27:33 i didn't see any talk there for months.. 20:27:34 (you need an invite, ask Sledge, Ganneff or me to get one.. Clint, do you volunteer for this irc jockey job too?) 20:27:44 and i'm there everyday whole day.. 20:27:49 we do this, as we can discuss confidential things there 20:27:54 aroundthfur, we havent yet really started 20:27:55 h01ger: sure, if i have access 20:28:01 Clint, will give you, thanks 20:28:10 k.. 20:28:13 then, we have *one* file in debconf-team svn 20:28:32 svn+ssh://holger@svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-team/dc11/sponsors-table 20:28:35 this one 20:28:44 there we track, who contacted which companies 20:28:53 exactly 20:28:58 commit logs are sent to #debconf-team, so dont be too verbose 20:28:59 the commit logs get broadcasted to this channel so we avoid putting details in them 20:29:15 the file includes a description how to use it 20:29:18 (with a text editor) 20:29:29 then we have this sponsorship brochure in pdf (url please) 20:29:37 which we, individually, pass on to companies we know 20:29:47 we notice this in sponsors-table in svn 20:29:48 http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship/dc11_brochure_en_hq.pdf 20:29:49 http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship/dc11_brochure_en_hq.pdf 20:30:00 darst: h01ger: please use it as you want, or point me any issue you find, then i fix and build again: http://tiagovaz.org/archive/FinalReport-DC10-0.99.pdf 20:30:09 its also a good idea to pass on the dc10 final report, so we can show what awesome work debconf does 20:30:20 yay, tiago, thanks for link (and the work :) 20:30:44 then, once the sponsor agrees to sponsors, we send them an invoice 20:30:46 tiago: after the meeting, we can talk about putting it on media.debconf.org (simple svn in debconf-data) 20:30:47 (i have no idea how it looks printed) 20:30:58 thats basically our workflow 20:31:16 (last year the ffis invoices were written by me, i forgot who wrote the spi invoices) 20:31:21 schultmc does 20:31:28 you give the sponsors an option of paying to SPI (USD) or FFIS, or DIVA in bosnia 20:31:33 but the invoices are really at the *end* of the process 20:31:50 we would prefer payments to SPI or FFIS greatly for global sponsors 20:31:52 ok, but what interests me 20:31:59 is who contacts which sponsor? 20:32:04 payments to SPI and FFIS are tax deductable, so many companies prefer that 20:32:16 aroundthfur, if you know a company / a contact there, you do 20:32:21 are there ppl that contact specific sponsors or is there some other procedure? 20:32:27 check sponsors-table first, if noone else has done 20:32:43 ok, so one needs a contact in the company? 20:32:44 aroundthfur, last years people usually contact again. 20:32:53 aroundthfur, it increases chances of success 20:33:05 we did a lot of coldcalling last year 20:33:10 ok then, that means we need to poke last years ppl? 20:33:19 yes 20:33:31 last year I started with a "formal" email 20:33:36 that was VERY unsuccessful 20:33:41 aroundthfur, yes. its totally great if you look into sponsors table and say "h01ger, you contacted nokia last year, can you do it again or should i?" 20:33:47 short, informal e-mails were much better 20:33:56 looking up the status in svn in sponsors table is essential 20:33:59 h01ger, i'll do that then 20:34:10 over the next couple of days.. 20:34:26 also some people didn't have svn access last year but coordinated through people that do 20:34:30 yeah, exactly. We don't want two people contacting them at once. It makes us look very unorganized. 20:34:33 #topic this years workflow, strategy and brain storming 20:34:37 hopefully with success of getting ppl to do it again this year.. 20:34:58 Last year I sent a short informal message attaching a more formal message with all details 20:34:59 last year, sponsors who had committed were placed in a spreadsheet. Can that continue this year ? 20:35:26 And added email contact information 20:36:02 zumbi is a good person to ask for templates too :) 20:36:24 I cannot read the file at the moment, but I plan to contact some of that people and send out emails 20:36:31 darst, if you want to generate that from sponsors table, sure. but for daily work a text file in svn is much nicer tahn a spreadsheet in svn 20:37:06 right, the text file for daily stuff 20:37:24 spreadsheet would only be updated twice per sponsor: add "promised", then move to "received" 20:37:25 committed sponsors don't happen overnight ;) 20:37:37 that's a good point 20:37:48 in the workflow, it takes a while of poking to get the money 20:38:01 i want the budget in the spreadsheet, so i want a spreadsheet anyway.. i dont mind if it has several sheets... ;) 20:38:08 so just getting the sponsor to say "we'll commit to $" it only part of the work 20:38:17 * h01ger nods DrDub 20:38:24 (if that wasnt obvious :) 20:38:29 since I am trying to do accounting, I will try to have some sort of system for keeping things tracked 20:39:03 \o/ if i dont have to understand ledger, just a spreadsheet, i'm happy to help ;) 20:39:12 anything else on workflow / strategy? 20:39:41 err, upsells? 20:39:46 schultmc, are you fine+able to do this years invoices for SPI too, or should we look for someone else? 20:39:49 DrDub, ? 20:40:04 try to have an idea which level to go for an sponsor and try to push them a little higher in their bracket? 20:40:07 I believe people should communicate more and make strategy in order who contacts whom, e.g. maybe someone has better contact, more influence or so 20:40:14 rather than just typing into spreadsheets 20:40:26 that type of discussions happen in #-sponsors 20:40:41 tap into the other members for some insight / help 20:40:44 EnisDonKing, we've been doing this. people who have contacts contact those. (thats why eg i talked with nokia) 20:40:57 alright 20:41:06 and we use other debian people who aren't involved with debconf 20:41:26 also one can(+should) always ask on #sponsors: "i was thinking to contact google, do you know someone there?" 20:41:57 EnisDonKing, you should do the same with local companies... 20:42:24 ok, shall we move on? 20:42:28 and do not do that on #-team 20:42:43 no mention of company names outside of #-sponsors unless they already committed 20:43:00 that's negative publicity for them, so keep away from it 20:43:25 (if we say 'who knows people in company X' it can be constructed as we approached company X and they didn't sponsor) 20:43:48 #info no mention of company names outside of #-sponsors unless they already committed - that is / could be negative publicity, so keep away from it 20:44:08 * Sledge reappears 20:44:24 #topic last year details on http://debconf11.debconf.org/payments.xhtml 20:44:50 that page is for attendee payments 20:44:52 afaik they are still valid, for ffis for sure and i assume spi as well. please someone check and shout loud if spi has changed 20:44:59 right 20:45:04 next topic anyway 20:45:05 I will make sure they are updated before opening registration 20:45:11 +hi Sledge, enjoy backlog :) 20:45:15 schultmc needs to set up click&pledge again 20:45:18 thanks darst 20:45:25 I have tried to clarify the FFIS payment info 20:45:29 #topic agreement diva + debconf11/debian 20:45:47 url for the draft we wrote? 20:46:00 (should be pointed out: payments.xhtml is *not* whaht you point sponsors to... ask for an invoice) 20:46:13 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/NGOMoney 20:46:36 darst, I'll add that notice on payments page 20:46:37 please read this url if you havent already 20:46:41 vedran_omeragic, no 20:46:47 we'll tell sponsors 20:46:54 no one will just send us money "randomly" 20:47:09 but, me shrugs, do make it clearer :) 20:47:27 back to this agreement between diva and debian 20:47:40 AbsintheSyringe, did you read this? 20:48:02 h01ger, mhm 20:48:15 * h01ger is not really sure if this should be signed on the debian side by the dpl, the debconf chairs or someone from spi 20:48:32 I was thinking dpl 20:48:45 even tho it doesn't really matter 20:49:04 dpl is just making it "ultra" official 20:49:16 the agreement "text" itself is fine or is there stuff missing / wrong? 20:50:05 there isn't a formal text yet, is there? or are the bullet points enough? 20:50:12 darst, nope 20:50:40 I guess it's fine 20:50:49 as long as it serves the purpose 20:50:55 "viva and debian look forward to held debconf11 together. to make this a success we agree that...", names, addresses, signatures :) 20:51:02 viva la Debian! 20:51:07 :D 20:51:09 lol 20:51:12 h01ger, that's fine with me 20:52:26 #info todo: find out who to sign on the debian side. make a real agreement. print. sign on debian side. mail to banja luka. sign on diva side. send one copy back. party. 20:52:27 who should write the formal text and all? 20:52:39 who volunteers (to draft)? 20:53:12 * h01ger suggests to wait 3min for an answer to the last question and then spend the last 5min on finding the next meeting date :) 20:53:19 :) 20:53:36 I could, but it's an easy jbo for someone else... 20:53:43 maybe I can get nattie to do it... 20:53:47 my thoughts too :) 20:53:50 :) 20:54:07 I can do it, but I thought it'd be better to have someone from Bosnia 20:54:21 AbsintheSyringe, us two? 20:54:27 who will sign it on the DIVA side ? 20:54:36 aroundthfur, I'm trying to have something done that won't be done by me :D 20:54:41 DrDub, i'd actually prefer someone not from debian+diva ;) 20:54:42 darst, DIVA's president? 20:54:43 and will the entire board know of it? 20:54:46 i would do it alone, but.. 20:54:49 h01ger: of course 20:54:52 but its a wiki, you can do it with three or four people too :) 20:54:54 aroundthfur, nah, let someone from debian do it 20:54:56 but aroundthfur it is not from there 20:55:03 aroundthfur: wanna work together on that? 20:55:06 like, now? 20:55:06 DrDub, exactly.. 20:55:09 i can help someone.. 20:55:24 AbsintheSyringe: DIVA's president would be a good choice... though does the board need a resolution to approve or something? 20:55:26 DrDub, yes 20:55:27 #info aroundthfur and DrDub will finish it so that it gets in a state so that it can be signed 20:55:40 good good 20:55:47 darst, I'll let them know about this, we'll see who they come up with 20:55:48 #info then we will see who will print+sign+send it 20:55:55 #topic next meeting 20:55:59 darst, I'm thinking DIVA president and DPL would be perfect 20:56:20 darst: whatever it is you're trying to get me to do, poke me about it later 20:56:29 thursday, same time, in two weeks? 20:56:36 h01ger, mhm 20:56:48 this is next sponsorship team meeting? 20:56:55 yes 20:56:55 yea 20:56:56 yes, next sponsorship meeting 20:57:01 next global meeting is in 5 days 20:57:06 yes 20:57:09 Ok, but I can't stay beyond 2100 20:57:14 I teach at 2130 20:57:23 DrDub, utc? so today worked well? 20:57:32 (not today, so let's work on it now) 20:57:37 hah, summertime... 20:57:38 today is a holiday here, so it is all good 20:57:42 just go with two weeks 20:57:47 yup 20:57:48 we can always mail the list if there are changes 20:57:52 anyway, 7 april or 14 april? 20:58:05 april 7th 20:58:05 i mean some of us can still meet here and talk.. 20:58:10 19 utc or 20 utc? we will have sometime then... 20:58:10 7th 20:58:11 I wanna have that 20:58:16 signed by diva and debian 20:58:19 by then 20:58:20 20 20:58:21 doesn't have to be oficial meeting does it? 20:58:26 yup 20:58:35 AbsintheSyringe, that has nothing to do with when we'll have the next meeting 20:58:46 * h01ger is in favor of 19 utc 20:58:54 cause that will be 21 localtime again 20:59:05 h01ger, I know, just saying, just saying 20:59:12 AbsintheSyringe said 20, i 19, other opinions? 20:59:12 19utc would work better for me 20:59:21 19 utc is 20 local time for us here.. 20:59:32 go whit whichever you want :) 20:59:33 with* 20:59:38 then make it 19 utc.. 20:59:39 aroundthfur, i dont think in 2 weeks anymore... 20:59:49 #info next meeting, april 7th, 19 utc 20:59:54 there 21:00:01 h01ger, i wasnt thinking that either.. 21:00:01 great! 21:00:03 ooooh 21:00:04 \o/ 21:00:10 daytime savings.. 21:00:14 forgot about it :D 21:00:24 * h01ger thanks everybody for attending and is glad we finally kickstarted this! and we have a dc10 final report and a sponsorship brochure! awesome! 21:00:28 take advantage of our daytime savings, while they last! 21:00:41 #endmeeting