19:59:50 #startmeeting 19:59:50 Meeting started Tue Feb 22 19:59:50 2011 UTC. The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:59:50 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00:05 agenda at http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Meetings#Global_Team_Meeting.2C_22_February_20:00_UTC 20:01:01 karolina: you're already part of the local team though, or just now arrived via IRC? 20:01:24 i'v just arrived 20:01:35 i'm from belgrade 20:01:55 #topic Local team updates 20:02:07 karolina: ah, right. welcome :) 20:02:16 thanks 20:02:18 :) 20:02:29 there was already some 'local team update' on the list, what more do people have to add? 20:02:53 I pretty much said it all on the list 20:03:09 regarding the accommodation and venue and all that 20:03:16 obviously it will be good to get more details on exact room numbers, talk room sizes, etc. 20:03:36 and we hope you will carry on pushing them to agree firmly to pay for more things! 20:03:51 moray, venue is a huge building, we're the ones who will propose the numbers and all of it, and we're getting it, I think the whole building has 4 of conference rooms 20:03:58 moray, YES 20:04:01 that's what I wanted to talk about 20:04:05 tomorrow I'm going to 20:04:25 meeting with President and Minister again to talk what exactly they are going to sponsor, besides hotel and venue 20:04:36 so I'm all jumpy about that one 20:04:37 I thought we came up with a list last year? 20:04:42 we did 20:04:45 we even had that 20:04:51 let me tell you what happened 20:05:07 the thing I didn't want to speak publicly about 20:05:12 if you remember 20:05:23 sure -- though note that this meeting *is* public 20:05:36 so don't say anything that might be bad for the government to see 20:05:37 of course but this is less public :) 20:05:48 no no, they know this, I told them this 20:06:00 we assembled debconf-committee last year, after we came back from dc10 20:06:14 now, we started many talks with them, and one of them was migration to linux 20:06:29 couple of them turned out to be working for microsoft, so a whole war broke out 20:06:52 some of them even wanted to halt the whole conference, since they were convinced we'll move onto linux after conference 20:07:07 then I explained them that this conference doesn't bound them with anything regarding linux and all that 20:07:20 but they kept obstructing the whole thing, and back on one of the meetings 20:07:29 we had all those things *closed* 20:07:48 that they would pretty much pay for everything (govt) 20:08:06 but then the govt shift happened after elections and lost minister got lost along the way 20:08:23 he might've been on their side as well as it turned out later 20:08:40 either way, that's the reason the meeting with the president was so important for us 20:08:47 sure 20:08:48 because he said he's giving us all that stuff to the new minister 20:09:06 now, regarding the migration to linux, I won't talk anything about this, to anyone 20:09:31 :) 20:09:38 right, that can be left until after the conference 20:09:51 either way, I'm going to the meeting tomorrow again, regarding the other stuff the govt. is going to sponsor 20:10:02 exactly 20:10:15 our priority is to have debconf and for it to kick ass 20:10:21 after that ... won't talk about it :) 20:10:30 after that doesn't matter, what matters is now 20:10:31 so 20:10:40 I actually disassembled the whole dc11 govt team 20:10:44 we don't need them anymore 20:10:54 from now on, we're working directly with the president and the minister 20:10:59 ok 20:11:00 more like minister cuz president is too busy with other stuff 20:11:05 but he's on our side 100% 20:11:08 after tomorrow 20:11:14 I'll send "report" to the mailing list 20:11:25 by my predictions after that we'll know what we'll be paying for 20:11:26 well, as long as there is some arrangement for them to pay for things (or to book them directly), this sounds good 20:11:31 right 20:11:33 and we'll start working on getting other sponsorships 20:11:40 yea 20:11:44 do we need this on paper? 20:11:46 from them? 20:11:52 should I pursue that one, or that's too much 20:11:56 I think there's no need 20:12:00 cuz we have the memorandum 20:12:07 from them being general financial sponsor 20:12:22 I think all we need is for president to say what we're getting tomorrow 20:12:26 well, having things on paper is always good, but you can judge what is best to push for from whom 20:12:41 sure 20:12:42 you need to check how things will actually work in practice financially 20:12:52 well we talked about this as well 20:12:58 will they book things directly? (which actual person?) 20:13:22 I imagine they might prefer doing it themselves, but the president won't have much time to call up hotels :) 20:13:28 they are going to book it for us, we just need to tell them what, so far we got the venue and hotel 20:13:39 yea, he'll have someone else doing it of course :) 20:13:47 but I think it's better way to go like that 20:13:52 so you need to get that person's details and be kind to them 20:13:53 or to give us money, so we can get it 20:14:10 maybe take them for dinner and discuss things, or whatever works 20:14:12 for example, transpiration, or daytrip and some things, that aren't too *big* 20:14:14 yeah 20:14:21 as we 20:14:39 discussed on one of the meetings we'll go see for them to give us the most 20:14:48 after that we'll use it all for getting people here 20:14:51 (I don't mean bribing, we can't afford that, but just because this is not their primary job, and we want them to know what we're trying to achieve and be on-side) 20:15:05 govt is getting the stuff we need infrastructure, buildings, we gonna get the people into those buildings :) 20:15:14 right 20:15:15 of course :) 20:15:25 so are there more things you need to know from the meeting today? 20:15:33 so yea, that was the plan and we're still on it 20:15:38 (as you already have the list of desired things from before) 20:15:51 I don't know, I think this sums it up 20:16:37 ok, you can ask more questions to the team later in the meeting if you think of more information you need from anyone 20:16:40 thanks 20:16:45 #topic DebConf10 final report status 20:16:46 np :) 20:16:53 darst: any update on this? 20:16:57 heh, I was working on this one too :) 20:17:04 not much... 20:17:07 I think we have most of the articles now, as Richard wrote some more and I wrote some more 20:17:19 AbsintheSyringe (I think) was getting blog permissions 20:17:28 so beyond that it should be mostly design work? 20:17:35 but maybe some numbers are missing still -- darst? 20:17:39 AbsintheSyringe is doing permissions ? 20:17:54 moray, yep 20:17:59 hm, yes, numbers may be missing 20:18:02 no I was trying to get permissions for me to upload stuff 20:18:07 but can be taken from http://rkd.zgib.net/http/debconf/only-arrived/ 20:18:26 anyway, we should really get a version with the current content *soon* 20:18:30 nothing big, I can email you regarding this later on 20:18:31 seeing how late it already is 20:18:48 I think it could be assembeled basically now 20:19:05 to remind everyone, this is a requirement for some repeat sponsors at least, before they'll give money for the next year 20:19:48 darst: do you have time to continue to push the last stages, ASAP? 20:20:26 some people had already agreed to do design before 20:20:31 I think I have done enough non-work that I am obligated to now 20:20:42 so yeah, I'll do it 20:20:43 great 20:21:01 AbsintheSyringe: when do you think blog permissions can happen, or should I do it? 20:21:04 I can do it this evening 20:21:11 I got spammed by some permission reply 20:21:23 ah, so permissions are gotten? 20:21:24 darst, got it all 20:21:32 perfect 20:21:33 I just can't upload it 20:21:36 right... 20:21:49 so what do you want me to do about it? 20:22:00 they told me to mail admin@debconf didn't get to do that, been too busy lately 20:22:05 can you discuss directly, post-meeting? 20:22:11 sure 20:22:14 when getting permissions, did you collect better quote parts ? 20:22:17 I got it, so ... yea 20:22:22 darst, yea 20:22:25 you can mail it to me and I'll commit for now 20:22:31 went to sites and collected them off the sites 20:22:34 darst, awesome 20:23:05 and then I'll mail about proofreading, and then assembly 20:23:13 yea 20:23:15 #action darst to lead push to get a full final report as soon as possible 20:23:19 I wanna do that as wel, with images and all 20:23:40 and posts, you would just need to pick, which quotes to take excatly because there's too much that was said 20:23:44 so yea, I can help with that part 20:23:54 yes, images of people 'working' are important -- in talks, at computers, interacting 20:24:22 yes 20:24:28 #topic Sponsorship team status 20:24:34 I was going around and looking for all the pictures and I found a lot of them 20:24:45 so I can help with that, image selection and the quotes 20:25:13 ok so i made this wiki page 20:25:14 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsors 20:25:22 h01ger Clint Sledge / others who did previous sponsorship work: around? 20:25:23 i based it on the dc9 wiki page 20:25:30 moray: barely 20:25:41 DrDub was leader i think 20:26:06 Clint: do you have a view of what would be realistic levels, if you don't like those ones? 20:26:13 i think DrDub is too busy these days.. 20:27:06 I think we still got more time regarding these, so I don't think anything has to be concluded right now 20:27:07 aroundthfur: there was some discussion about what level receives what -- did you just leave that the same as previous DebConfs in your proposal? 20:27:11 local team discussed last years levels, and after all reactions we got on mailing list, we proposed levels of DC9 20:27:12 moray: i thought someone made a different proposal a while back that seemed more reasonable 20:27:17 we could do it next time, since govt. is playing such big role with this 20:27:27 aroundthfur, tell them about media thingy 20:27:36 moray, no i've put the new info on there 20:27:51 i will point out that we didn't have any sponsors listed as gold last year 20:28:05 Clint: ok -- I don't remember what the levels were, but I'm confused as to how they say they're copying dc9 levels but you say they're more than dc10's 20:28:06 and the one sponsor i have info about is making a smaller contribution this year than last 20:28:19 i can only say, that we won't get any gold (or above) in bosnia 20:28:21 moray: maybe i can't do exchange rates today 20:28:24 that's for sure 20:28:40 aroundthfur, umm trust me we're not sure about that one 20:28:49 cuz I think I know who I'm gonna ask for gold in bosnia :) 20:28:52 AbsintheSyringe, maybe m:tel? 20:28:52 aroundthfur: the government would be? 20:28:53 be optimisic :) 20:28:55 i don't think we will get any gold or above from the US or europe at those rates 20:28:56 aroundthfur, there you go :) 20:29:01 moray, yes the govmt 20:29:09 moray, govt is the "general" they are everything 20:29:10 we were optimistic last year and as you can see we go straight from platinum to silver 20:29:13 * Sledge nods Clint 20:29:14 but i think we can get more ppl to sponsor if the levels are like this 20:29:21 Clint, but we got govt 20:29:22 and not like last year for dc10 20:29:27 I made a proposal ages ago for smaller sponsor levels 20:29:40 but I've not had any time to stay involved since 20:29:52 Sledge: there's been quite a lot of discussion (without any conclusion) -- do you have a link back to your proposal? 20:29:57 sec... 20:30:17 i asked and i asked about this 20:30:20 here, on the lists 20:30:28 but only a few ppl said something 20:30:38 and it just stayed kind of "in the air" 20:30:42 aroundthfur: right, at the moment there is no active sponsorship team, is the overall problem 20:30:50 moray, yup1 20:30:51 the plan *was* for the team to have a meeting and decide the levels 20:30:56 moray, let's assemble a new one 20:31:07 lets solve this "on air" 20:31:08 moray, i think DrDub is too busy 20:31:18 AbsintheSyringe: yes, that needs to happen, but the levels is holding up the sponsorship pack being produced 20:31:21 gah 20:31:26 * Sledge fights lurker and loses 20:31:29 ah :-/ 20:31:30 i was talking alot with him until he just went offline :) 20:31:54 aroundthfur: yes, DrDub being busy may be the immediate problem, we can't blame him for that though 20:32:13 moray, of course not! 20:32:27 i was not implying we should!!! 20:32:40 just stating the thing that holds us back 20:32:50 http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20101217.124654.159528b2.en.html is the closest thing I can find on the list 20:33:07 we need some kind of solution, at least a proposition for one 20:34:15 2010-12-17 11:40 GMT< Sledge> last year's were too high IMHO 20:34:15 2010-12-17 11:40 GMT< Sledge> we struggled to get some companies to contribute 20:34:18 2010-12-17 11:40 GMT< Sledge> and (unofficially) we had to give a number of people exceptions to the posted amounts 20:34:21 2010-12-17 11:42 GMT< vedran_omeragic> by how would you suggest to lower the amount? 20:34:24 2010-12-17 11:42 GMT< vedran_omeragic> 10% 20:34:27 2010-12-17 11:42 GMT< vedran_omeragic> 20% 20:34:29 2010-12-17 11:42 GMT< vedran_omeragic> ? 20:34:32 2010-12-17 11:42 GMT * Sledge checks the numbers again 20:34:35 2010-12-17 11:43 GMT< Sledge> so, we currently have USD 2K, USD 10K, USD 20K and USD 30K 20:34:35 vedran_omeragic, didn't we lower the amount? 20:34:38 2010-12-17 11:47 GMT< Sledge> my finger-in-the-air estimate: EUR 1K, EUR 5K, EUR 10K, EUR 20K 20:34:41 2010-12-17 11:47 GMT< Sledge> but those are just numbers picked out of the air 20:34:44 2010-12-17 11:47 GMT< Sledge> and more opinions would be good 20:34:49 AbsintheSyringe, we did, see: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsors 20:35:09 aroundthfur, I know it was more of a rhetorical question 20:35:18 AbsintheSyringe, oh 20:35:22 so "EUR 1K, EUR 5K, EUR 10K, EUR 20K" would mean reduce aroundthfur's 15K to 10K, 25K to 20K 20:35:36 moray, yup 20:35:43 pretty much 20:35:46 Clint: would those sound more reasonable to you? 20:36:08 yes 20:36:17 ok, this looks like progress 20:36:22 i assume we fully expect the government to break 20k 20:36:29 IMHO i think, that if there were no gold/platinum spons. we should lover the amount! 20:36:38 Clint: yes, I don't think the government cares about the levels 20:36:41 Clint, ooh they will :D 20:36:52 Clint: they can get their own category if they want 20:37:21 govt. is above everything, above all 20:37:30 even google? 20:37:34 general, to us this means they have to top everybody 20:37:37 vedran_omeragic, yea 20:37:39 def 20:38:04 I mean, that's what I'm trying to include in all of this stuff they are going to give us/pay for us to get 20:38:19 aroundthfur: if the 'rewards' for the levels changed from previous years, can you remind us of the diff? 20:38:35 moray, see: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsors for current "rewards" 20:38:42 and see: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf9/Sponsors 20:38:43 for the past 20:38:44 switched places of shirts and bags 20:38:53 i don't know what the rewards were last year 20:38:59 ooh 20:39:03 there you go :) 20:39:07 :) 20:39:12 :) 20:39:17 vedran_omeragic, how? 20:39:30 we believe shirts are much more noticable, and therefore 20:39:40 we 'promoted' it 20:39:44 ooh 20:39:45 and downgraded bags a level 20:39:45 ok 20:40:00 Sledge: Clint: others: happy with that? 20:40:15 we downgraded it all 20:40:24 switching from euro to km cut it in half :) 20:40:27 works 20:40:34 * Clint nods. 20:41:01 AbsintheSyringe, what do you mean? 20:41:07 and I assume we know we're definitely getting the Linux Magazine ad again, before we promise that? 20:41:24 i might also suggest some kind of special recognition for sponsors that have been with us every year for a long time 20:41:26 moray, i am not clear on that 20:41:38 i just copied the info from another place (brochure) 20:41:39 uhh, who's our contact with LM? who was last year? 20:41:53 yea, we need all the contacts 20:42:00 contacts are in svn 20:42:01 from everybody who was ever sponsor 20:42:23 moray, btw I bashed linux mag today (http://www.linux-mag.com/id/8188/#comment-8977) :) 20:42:30 hahahahaha 20:42:36 Clint: LM doesn't seem to be in dc10/sponsors-table 20:42:49 well that makes sense in retrospect 20:43:11 it looks like h01ger handled them for dc9 20:43:24 DrDub might have talked to them last year 20:43:33 Ganneff h01ger : do you know the LM status? 20:43:57 no 20:44:21 i know they want to sponsor this year, but thats all i know 20:45:25 Ganneff: do you think it's safe to promise other sponsors that they appear in the advertisement? or might we not get one, then have a problem? 20:45:49 i would THINK they do the sponsorstuff again, so i THINK its safe 20:46:03 I guess actually we could add some small print to the benefits page, that would be safest for any of these 20:46:04 but someone should mail em soon, if they didnt get in contact with whoever last had it 20:47:13 i can email them, and ask.. 20:47:18 Just some small print to say "The benefits above are indicative of what we can offer to show our appreciation of our sponsors. Details may change due to circumstances beyond our control." or whatever 20:47:20 have you considered adjusting the 'levels' to a curve? or maybe a curve with reasonably low minimums? 20:47:23 but i dont know if they will talk to me 20:47:33 maybe they want to talk to someone from last year?? 20:47:53 aroundthfur, I don't see anything wrong with that, I was planing on doing that either way 20:48:04 AbsintheSyringe, they dont like you anymore :D 20:48:09 aroundthfur: it needs to be checked who was in contact with them / what the current contact at LM is 20:48:17 edgar, could you explain that some more? 20:48:23 aroundthfur: but as I say (20:47) maybe we don't need to worry about this for now 20:48:26 moray, ok 20:49:02 edgar: if everyone is happy with Sledge's proposal, I'd rather take that than start another few months of discussion :) 20:49:06 aroundthfur, I didn't mean them, I meant other ones and I'll help you with the other ones 20:49:20 AbsintheSyringe, tnx 20:49:26 sure, say for instance, the top 10% of sponsors will be platinum, the next 20% gold and so on (this would be just a curve) 20:49:31 edgar: to get 'ideal' levels you would need to take into account actual amounts given, but also to somehow know the amounts companies would give if the levels changed 20:50:04 edgar: as companies are likely to adjust their giving to meet the thresholds 20:50:45 edgar: in principle it might be best to set the levels *after* all sponsorship is agreed, but companies would just be confused by that 20:50:58 a curve with minimums would be almost the same, but saying, for instance, the top 10% will be platinum, but so long as they put in more than $15K (percentages and limits are hypothetical) 20:51:29 it turns it into a bit of an auction, right 20:51:30 i kind of like that idea 20:52:01 it's reduces to what we used to have, no levels and just sorting -- but *long* discussions decided (fixed) levels were better 20:52:16 which could be blind (nobody knows what the others are putting in) or not (there's a page with promises which also shows preliminary categories) 20:52:33 as we're already late this year, unless a lot of people on the channel want a new approach they can quickly agree on, I'd rather we agreed on the aroundthfur + Sledge-modifications proposal 20:52:57 ok wait 20:53:06 Sledge, and i have different proposals for levels 20:53:17 aroundthfur: right, "+ Sledge-modifications" 20:53:26 moray, ooh ok 20:53:28 aroundthfur: your page, but with the top numbers modified to what Sledge said 20:53:29 well, i dont mean to create drag, its just that since there was discussion, i thought some fresh ideas might be in order 20:53:58 so do we agree on this? 20:54:01 its not the same as no fixed levels, its just a different way of fixing them 20:54:19 on that has pros and cons, for sure 20:54:26 edgar: I'd suggest you write out a concrete proposal, discuss it with people previously involved in sponsorship work, then get that idea discussed on the list -- in time for *next* year 20:54:51 thx, maybe, ill leave it at that now 20:55:24 Sledge: Clint: any more thoughts? (again, anyone else too, just trying to ping people who did a lot of sponsorship work in the past) 20:55:39 edgar: if you're doing sponsorship work you could also ask some friendly people how they would feel about such a plan 20:56:03 moray: just that someone should think about special recognition for long-running sponsors 20:56:18 i did at some point, dont think i can now, but i might still have some contacts to ask 20:56:50 #agreed for sponsorship levels we will go for now with http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsors but with different higher levels (from Sledge): EUR 1K, EUR 5K, EUR 10K, EUR 20K 20:56:54 Clint: right, I'd agree 20:56:55 ack 20:57:02 Clint: but we don't necessarily need that in the sponsors pack 20:57:11 agreed 20:57:17 now i must go fully afk for a meeting 20:57:25 Clint: people might even feel more special if we tell them directly we're just giving them a great deal for their past support, etc. 20:57:47 #topic Next meeting/Any Other Business 20:57:54 YES 20:58:00 i wanted to say this 20:58:05 :) 20:58:08 but was waiting for the other thing to settle 20:58:20 we need to discuss "media sponsors" 20:58:24 maybe to make survey and ask sponsors, what kind of stuff would animate them to invest more, level more, or some kind of new idea that they have? 20:58:30 clint, i whole heartedly agree about the recognition for longtime sponsors, could be just a little icon stating how many years of sponsorship 20:58:41 i don't know if anybody here remembers it, but we made that category a while ago 20:58:45 kefalo: yes, that would be sensible 20:58:47 that for next debconfs... for this is maybe too late 20:59:09 aroundthfur: I don't think that has to be this meeting? again, it's really a sponsorship team thing, and we don't have enough media sponsors that it needs to be in the sponsor pack 20:59:27 i am only asking this 20:59:30 because of the brochure 20:59:40 but if we dont need this in the spons pack 20:59:49 then we dont need it in the brochure either?? 21:00:07 I'm not sure what the difference is between the 'sponsor pack' and 'brochure' 21:00:16 i guess me neither :D 21:00:17 (I thought there was only one document) 21:00:26 ooh 21:00:29 I think DrDub was calling what used to be the pack the brochure 21:00:30 yes it's just one doc :) 21:00:35 i thought you were talking about some other thing.. 21:00:37 so yeah, same... 21:00:38 nvm 21:00:55 alright then.. 21:00:56 on a different topic: we have the first DC12 bid discussion meeting soon 21:00:57 but 21:01:05 both bids look good, though both look *expensive* 21:01:09 can we assemble a new sponsors team? 21:01:22 or should i just email everyone in person? 21:01:35 we need this team asap in my opinion! 21:01:36 it would be good if people can read through the DC12 bid materials and ask questions on the list 21:01:57 aroundthfur: I suspect you need to do it by email -- people can answer now if they want to join in, but not everyone is here 21:02:10 moray, will do.. 21:02:17 anyone else interested in joining? 21:02:24 sponsorship team, that is... 21:02:31 #action everyone should read the DC12 bid materials and ask questions on the list 21:02:45 #action aroundthfur to work on assembling a renewed sponsorship team 21:02:48 vedran_omeragic, am I sponsorship team? 21:02:58 meh, I am 21:03:03 AbsintheSyringe, yes you are! 21:03:04 :) 21:03:41 :) 21:03:56 AbsintheSyringe, is the statement 'for every team, AS is in it' true? &8-P 21:04:25 edgar, *cheers :) 21:04:30 next meeting date? 21:04:43 guy's workaholic :) 21:04:44 we have the DC12 meeting on the 1st 21:04:47 before that, 21:04:48 oh, btw, i might be unable to attend, again, this year. :() 21:05:19 Ganneff, dc11? 21:05:23 si 21:05:31 aah, :S 21:05:44 i registered for the appropriate lists, but couldnt find one about the visa team, since i volunteered to do some work for it, i am concerned that i dont know how to get in touch with them 21:06:21 :) 21:06:22 2 months 21:06:24 2 weeks* 21:06:29 8th? 21:06:40 vedran_omeragic, and yes I am :) 21:07:13 #info next meeting in two weeks: 8 March, 20 UTC 21:07:30 #endmeeting