20:05:08 #startmeeting 20:05:08 Meeting started Tue Dec 7 20:05:08 2010 UTC. The chair is Ganneff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:05:08 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:05:14 k 20:05:15 #topic News from meeting with Government 20:05:21 AbsintheSyringe: there. go. 20:05:34 Ganneff, I can go if you wanna 20:05:37 either way 20:05:50 AbsintheSyringe: i started. now please go about the government thing 20:05:59 news from government are as I described it all in my last email telling everything about summary 20:06:09 things 20:06:17 thing* that's currently being most discussed is 20:06:20 we need to give them 20:06:33 who's gonna be in VIP, super-VIP and "regular" 20:06:54 because I would like them to have accommodation ready by next meeting with them which is on 20th 20:06:57 now 20:07:04 what is VIP, super-VIP and regular 20:07:07 where is this mail? 20:07:22 accomodation ready? 20:07:24 VIP is people that would be on debcamp 20:07:42 Ganneff, I want to have it ready, reserved, finished on our next meeting with govt. 20:07:50 to give hotels lists how many people are coming 20:07:55 for example 20:07:56 AbsintheSyringe: is there a difference in the quality of the lodging, or does it just mean that more money is allotted to them as they stay longer? 20:07:59 AbsintheSyringe: how can we have accommodation ready and know the amount of people? 20:08:02 on that meeting we figured we gonna need more then one hotel 20:08:03 when we not even have registration open 20:08:07 moray, it was on the dc11-bosnia list 20:08:12 Strange for me to think about people as VIP, superVIP... 20:08:15 gwolf, good question 20:08:22 Ganneff, we are aiming 400 people 20:08:29 change_: that's what I thought. that's not really the right way to announce something to everyone 20:08:36 Ganneff, looking for to accommodate ~400 people 20:08:41 now let me explain what gwolf just asked 20:08:48 moray, it was on dc-team also :) 20:08:49 can someone post a link to the message? 20:09:00 it wouldn't differ in quality or anything like that except maybe for super-VIP 20:09:09 what's a super-VIP? 20:09:09 change_, could you please find link to that email for moray 20:09:14 I probably saw it, but I don't remember about this 'VIP' stuff 20:09:19 AbsintheSyringe: I'd say (out of the top of my head) that we get about over ¼ of the total attendance as DebCamp attendees - But few stay for the whole DebCamp week 20:09:27 AbsintheSyringe, i am trying but the list was deleted :S 20:09:32 bdale you? :) 20:09:36 just a sec 20:09:36 change_, debconf-team 20:09:41 super vip would be 20:09:43 AbsintheSyringe: So rather than a VIP/regular binary, it would be a gradient... 20:10:04 also, the terms are more like corporate attendee (who pays a lot), regular debconf only, regular debcamp+conf 20:10:11 for example stallman, shuttleworth, bdale and something like that 20:10:14 that's the idea from govt. 20:10:17 naming anything vip/super vip makes it sound really bad 20:10:21 it would be 5-10 people like that 20:10:30 which would get an apartment basically 20:10:37 ok here 20:10:38 VIP is the people who would be on debcamp 20:10:39 moray, http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20101124.160802.10816fd0.en.html 20:10:45 it would be a single bedded french bed 20:10:48 while regular 20:10:48 from a practical standpoint, the name doesn't matter, it's about what the differences in accomidation and timing are, right? 20:10:53 #link Status report how assigned tasks are coming along (website, sponsorship, etc) 20:10:56 would be 2 bedded rooms 20:11:15 AbsintheSyringe: FWIW, there is no record of Stallman ever being close to a DebConf AFAIK. And unless you have something specific in mind, I doubt we should include him 20:11:16 bdale, right 20:11:20 change_: thanks -- I *did* see that, it doesn't mention much detail though (including not mentioning this 'VIP' stuff) 20:11:33 gwolf, we'll talk that in one of our topics 20:11:44 moray, i know, i am hearing about this VIP stuff for the first time too :S 20:11:51 bdale, names don't matter, what matters is that this category should be available, at least "just in case" 20:12:13 AbsintheSyringe: I think you need to persuade us why this category is useful for us to provide 20:12:18 * bdale shrugs 20:12:22 AbsintheSyringe: in the past we didn't have any 'VIP' stuff 20:12:30 a safe place to sleep and shower are all I really need .. ;-) 20:12:38 moray, we don't have to name it stuff 20:12:40 only thing would be 20:12:47 if you're in room by yourself 20:12:51 or it's a two bedded room 20:12:58 ah, ok, that's a useful distinction 20:13:04 because some of the hotels will offer only one bedded rooms for example 20:13:14 bdale, treatment will be the same 20:13:23 everybody's the same, that label basically means 20:13:26 AbsintheSyringe: So, this would also need the number of people travelling with their couple? 20:13:31 AbsintheSyringe: single vs. double we have dealt with before, it was *not* 'single for more important people' though 20:13:32 if you're going to be in room by yourself or with someone else 20:13:47 yes, that's what we are trying to figure 20:13:49 for example 20:13:55 forget about labels VIP and all that 20:14:06 how many people would need or would like 1 bedded room? 20:14:08 i think its way to early to go that deep into room assignments and stuff 20:14:16 When do we need the data? Can it be extrapolated from previous years and later adjusted? (I'd really hope so) 20:14:24 * gwolf agrees with Ganneff 20:14:26 gwolf: otherwise it cant work 20:14:33 ok 20:14:38 this is something that usually gets on the plate somewhere in april or may 20:14:41 there's a convergence needed here .. you need to know what's available, and then at some point you'll know what you need, and hopefully they match up 20:14:43 then how should this issue be solved? 20:14:58 AbsintheSyringe: you can go with rough numbers only. 20:15:09 "need about 400 places, a quarter in the debcamp week" 20:15:16 Ganneff, I know ... 20:15:17 yes 20:15:19 i agree with Ganneff 20:15:20 but in order to example 20:15:21 its not really important if there are 50 single or 100 single rooms 20:15:27 as I said it's gonna be in more then one hotel 20:15:39 should debcamp people be in different hotel then let's say debconf people 20:15:42 we will deal with what we have then. 20:15:44 and put them in single bedded rooms? 20:15:51 AbsintheSyringe: so an interesting thing to learn would be the set of possible target hotels and what their mix of available rooms is like? 20:15:51 AbsintheSyringe: why? 20:15:52 how do we chose who's gonna go into which room? 20:16:00 AbsintheSyringe, i think debcamp ppl should be in the same hotel 20:16:06 AbsintheSyringe: thats room assignment. thats done about a month before debconf 20:16:12 but the type of room shouldnt matter.. 20:16:19 and you want, for now: debcamp as much as possible in one hotel. 20:16:19 AbsintheSyringe: It is a bit early to say who will stay where 20:16:20 change_, they can't, I just said that above, I don't think one hotel will be enough 20:16:23 debconf then spread around as much as needed 20:16:25 we don't have anything close to the numbers even 20:16:36 AbsintheSyringe, not enough for all of the debcamp attendees? 20:16:37 room assignment as in "who goes where exactly" is for much later 20:16:42 when we know who comes and what they want 20:16:43 in a perfect world, everyone would be in the same hotel or whatever .. if that's not possible, then you want everyone attending debcamp in one facility if possible, then fill that and overflow to whatever comes next, right? 20:16:44 change_, debconf* not debcamp 20:16:59 AbsintheSyringe, i know that 20:17:04 AbsintheSyringe: If you can, just give verrrrrry rough figures and insist on us defining it in a couple of months 20:17:09 bdale, debcamp in one hotel, and debconf in another 20:17:12 i'm talking about debcamp ppl beeing in the same hotel 20:17:23 or it can be mixed 20:17:25 Last year, we asked how many people wanted single rooms, and then tried to get them to as many people that wanted them as possible 20:17:28 but I'm afraid of overflow 20:17:31 in that case 20:17:32 and when debconf ppl come, just put them anywhere where there is room 20:17:38 A lot of people wanted them though. 20:17:49 AbsintheSyringe: its pretty simple: take a hotel that can take around a hundred people. thats for debcamp. 20:17:55 and you should do the reservation asap. at the same time there is going to be demofest and they usually reserve hotel bosna for demobends... 20:17:58 and then take more hotels for debconf and put anything arriving then there. 20:18:18 ...and try to fill them up based on nearest-distance-first :) 20:18:30 yes. 20:18:31 dstranatic, that's why I'm trying to get this solved now 20:18:37 :) 20:18:41 :) 20:18:43 AbsintheSyringe: you can not, finally, solve this now. 20:18:51 AbsintheSyringe: you can only go with rough estimates. 20:19:04 Ganneff, that's what we are doing so far 20:19:06 so, in my experience, what event organizers usually do is tart thinking in rough numbers and looking at what hotels and such are available, and book blocks of rooms at what they know they need without getting worried about the details of who wants what or goes where yet 20:19:09 on one of the meetings we agreed 20:19:14 400 attendees in total 20:19:18 60-100 debcamp 20:19:25 70% sponsored? 20:19:39 AbsintheSyringe: sounds like a good figure 20:19:46 bdale, yes, that's what we want to do 20:19:51 AbsintheSyringe: if you can, you should 'hold' rooms even for non-sponsored 20:19:53 (though the sponsored amount depends on how much money we have, and how many want to pay for themselve) 20:20:09 AbsintheSyringe: Based on history, I'd be explicit on it being 300-400 20:20:09 yes, that sounds like reasonable estimates. the only caveat, which someone already mentioned, is that some people like me tend to arrive in the middle of debcamp not at the start 20:20:10 AbsintheSyringe: i.e. get a block booking assigned for the *rough* number, to be booked by people later 20:20:15 moray, is non-sponsored in that 400 or out of it? 20:20:16 for DC10 people tried to say 400 people total, and the maximum number of beds per night ended up being 200 after us reserving 300 20:20:20 we cannot commit to being 400 yet. 20:20:26 AbsintheSyringe: the 400 is total -- but is a guess 20:20:38 which I sort of saw based on looking at DC7 per-night with beds instead of total numbers 20:20:56 bdale, no problem, in such cases all you'll do is let us know 20:21:01 yes. people arrive at random days and leave equally random 20:21:02 you and everybody else 20:21:10 AbsintheSyringe, i think we should book one hotel in whole, and wait to see what happens 20:21:17 but that's somethingto deal with much later 20:21:23 i think we will definetley need one hotel in whole 20:21:30 darst: NYC is sort of interesting, though, in that there are so many places to stay .. do we have any sense of how many people stayed outside the organized sleeping spaces? I know several folks who were in hotels. 20:21:35 ok. is this point now halfway clear, so the bosnians can go on and deal with it? 20:21:49 you should be able to 'hold' blocks of rooms that you intend to use later, without payment, without final numbers being agreed 20:21:58 change_: I think it would be hard to arrange, especially hotel Bosna which is most frequent in that time of the year... 20:22:01 it's better to reserve more rooms then less 20:22:13 my expectation is that in somewhere like Bosnia, as we saw for example in Argentina, that people may be inclined to take the provided facility rather than try to work something out themselves, but I could be wrong. 20:22:16 Lunacy, that's why we want to do it ASAP 20:22:21 bdale: I think so too 20:22:32 i don't think they will have a problem if we pay them? 20:22:33 bdale: i'm not sure, but there is also "local just coming for a day or two" and "visiting froum outside staying with someone". I think most non-accommodated people were local, though 20:22:40 money is money for them 20:22:50 bdale: i thought (not sure) that most people staying outside were not compatible with columbia housing somehow 20:22:51 doesn't matter who pays.. 20:22:56 like kida under 12 20:23:13 darst: but beyond those, in NY (or more so Edinburgh) people just had their own arrangements, assuming it would be easy to find something close to the conference 20:23:35 darst: well, I know some corporate folks stayed in other hotels. the last time I did that personally was in HEL, I think. I *like* staying with the crowd in the general case. 20:23:52 ok. people. anything we need to discuss on this point IN THIS MEETING? if not we could go on. i dont see much added of value for the actual issue for the bosnians right now 20:23:59 darst: I'd imagine (like bdale) that for travelling to Bosnia Debian people will be more cautious and prefer to arrange accommodation through us even if they pay themselves 20:24:01 jeremyb: yeah, ok, that's certainly a factor too 20:24:14 moray, I too think it should be done like that 20:24:23 we had numbers that are roughly what we want for now 20:24:27 that's why I think we should go for number of 400 20:24:28 they can go and work based on it 20:24:29 we have 20:24:34 single bedded rooms 20:24:35 (and then go to -team list with more, if needed) 20:24:37 double bedded rooms 20:24:42 AbsintheSyringe: what else do you need to tell the government for now? 20:24:43 and corporate environment 20:24:48 yea 20:24:53 they were talking about different venue 20:25:04 I thought that was a way not to go 20:25:14 uh. different venue? 20:25:15 I'll have to personally look it all up 20:25:20 AbsintheSyringe, i think we should not change the venue! 20:25:31 I think so too, and that was my opinion during the meeting 20:25:31 AbsintheSyringe, it a university 20:25:36 what was the alternative to Banski Dvor? 20:25:40 and in august they have exams!!! 20:25:41 i agree we should stay with Banski Dvor 20:25:48 University of Economy 20:25:55 reason 20:25:59 it would be HELL! 20:26:02 that whole discussion was started is because 20:26:02 * h01ger waves, having "fun" with a remote server 20:26:15 we didn't have exact dates at the time 20:26:20 h01ger, enjoy ;) 20:26:27 I mean 20:26:29 but we do now :) 20:26:38 I think it's a lot of hassle to just go for different venue 20:26:40 is there any reason to switch? why do they want it? 20:26:41 and I told them this 20:26:41 so i think we should stick with banski dvor! 20:26:48 not only because of the exams, the university is farther away from hotel Bosna 20:26:53 one of the reasons we got this bid was because whole bid was as it is including this venue 20:27:10 AbsintheSyringe: indeed -- if you want to change things, you need to research a lot of details (again) first 20:27:17 Ganneff, because they said we could have problems reserving the current one 20:27:22 without the dates 20:27:27 but we agreed on the dates 20:27:30 but we have dates now. are there problems? 20:27:30 and didn't they promise a government building? 20:27:34 moray, that's what I told them, do you have any idea how much time we spent just deciding this one, you can't change venue just like that 20:27:35 so i it is fine now! 20:27:40 Ganneff, nope 20:27:44 ok, this is what I'm going to do 20:27:45 AbsintheSyringe: so don't tell us things the govt asks about that you disagree with and are going to stand firm on, it just makes noise. tell us the things you need help with. 20:27:55 ok. no trouble then, not switching. 20:27:58 yes 20:28:03 AbsintheSyringe: sooo, next point? :) 20:28:04 AbsintheSyringe: on the more general list of demands to the government, did they yet agree *to pay* for things like the daytrip, dinner, etc.? 20:28:05 bdale, true 20:28:10 ok 20:28:24 ok so having three different accomodation is fine? 20:28:36 apartments for corporate, single bedded for debcamp, and debconf with double? 20:28:38 ok? 20:28:43 it should be ok if they're all reasonably close .. where things go nuts if if some people are close and some very far away 20:28:52 whatever the rooms are, the important point is we have them and they are close 20:28:53 no no 20:28:59 they are close! 20:29:03 Aparments are in govt 20:29:04 then it's fine 20:29:08 which is from hotel bosnia really close 20:29:09 it doesnt matter if they are apartments or single or double 20:29:14 AbsintheSyringe: one accommodation place is better, and I don't think 'single for debcamp' / 'double for debconf' is best, but you ned to go with what is available 20:29:22 no problems there, everything is in walking distance 20:29:27 Ganneff, yea, in the end we can even ask people what they preffer 20:29:31 AbsintheSyringe, i think the accomodations are ok :) 20:29:32 yes. 20:29:40 AbsintheSyringe: exactly 20:29:41 they figured it wrong by giving labels such as vip, super-vip andregular 20:29:44 ok 20:29:45 AbsintheSyringe: more points for this topic ("news form govt"? 20:29:48 AbsintheSyringe: on the more general list of demands to the government, did they yet agree *to pay* for things like the daytrip, dinner, etc.? 20:29:49 next topic 20:29:52 next 20:29:53 meeting 20:29:55 is on 20th 20:29:57 with them 20:30:01 what I want, for example, will depend on whether my daughter plans to join me again, for example 20:30:06 I'll stay firm with venue, and tell them what we agreed when it comes to hotels 20:30:14 ok. fine 20:30:14 and will write a summary on debconf-team of what happened 20:30:17 please report on list then 20:30:18 thanks 20:30:26 AbsintheSyringe: and on my question above? 20:30:39 * bdale needs to reboot, bbiafm 20:30:55 moray, YES 20:30:55 #action next govt. meeting on 20th december. AbsintheSyringe will report to the list after it 20:30:55 :) 20:31:04 AbsintheSyringe: good -- I wasn't completely sure from your mail 20:31:07 moray, I got all those points from that time negotiated in our favor 20:31:11 AbsintheSyringe: (or whether they would just *arrange* it) 20:31:17 AbsintheSyringe: great 20:31:29 #agreed the govt has agreed to pay for things like daytrip, dinner, etc 20:31:34 pay/help with arrangement/or arrange it themself 20:31:37 there was a whole team of people 20:31:39 to who I just told 20:31:42 who needs to do what 20:31:57 next topic? 20:32:00 #topic Status report how assigned tasks are coming along (website, sponsorship, etc) 20:32:03 there. 20:32:06 ok 20:32:09 I think 20:32:14 contact with banja luka and all that 20:32:16 website doesnt look to bad for a start 20:32:19 should all be switched to website 20:32:22 AbsintheSyringe: (it may be worth pushing forward on some of this, for numbers 'up to 400', as things won't change much for different numbers for trip/dinner/etc.) 20:32:24 as I have some free time now, I'm going to finish it and prepare wiki with basic information. 20:32:24 we need to finish the website 20:32:27 some things to be filled in 20:32:39 it should be done by the end of the week 20:32:46 yea 20:32:49 great 20:32:50 vedran_omeragic, you're doing great work 20:32:55 we just need more info input 20:32:58 #info vedran_omeragic wants to have the website stuff done by end of the week 20:33:00 and all of us can hep here 20:33:07 (just keep in mind, the website will only finish AFTER debconf11) 20:33:07 ok cool 20:33:16 btw 20:33:17 Ganneff, :D 20:33:18 I have a guy 20:33:21 * vedran_omeragic knows... 20:33:25 that did debconf.com 20:33:32 he wrote a whole script using michelline website 20:33:35 how to get to Banja Luka 20:33:40 AbsintheSyringe, nice! 20:33:41 that is get exact diretctions from every 20:33:44 possible city 20:33:45 can we see it? 20:33:52 don't have the link to it right now 20:34:02 either way 20:34:03 post it on debconf-team then? 20:34:07 I would like to have that on website as well 20:34:12 AbsintheSyringe: you might want to add some more advice on flights etc. quite soon, but not urgent this week 20:34:15 isnt that just "use google maps navigation?" 20:34:18 should we make debconf.org top link point to DebConf11 already? 20:34:25 moray: redirect vedran_omeragic 20:34:30 dam: sure 20:34:35 ok 20:34:36 Ganneff, nah, Google and Balkans is just messed up 20:34:37 yes, we've provided vedran with some basic info which he asked, and we have to check a few things also as we ourselfs are not quite sure... 20:34:40 Ganneff: well, it's the wiki page, someone else might do it :) 20:34:56 moray: it should be iun website, not wiki 20:35:00 at least the most important parts 20:35:02 vedran_omeragic, please during this process ask questions and info you need 20:35:08 ok 20:35:09 yes! 20:35:16 everything from wiki should be migrated to website pretty much 20:35:23 I'm still pointing people to wiki instead of website 20:35:29 anyways, website seems pretty dealt with, so next point in this topic lists as "sponsorship" 20:35:38 yes 20:35:40 jeah.. 20:35:41 do we have any active global sponsorship team currently? 20:35:48 Ganneff, not really 20:35:51 Sledge, Clint, whoever was it in the past? 20:35:58 i replied to someone the other day, but not really 20:35:59 I agree, that's why we waited for confirmation on venue 20:36:06 vedran_omeragic: see https://debconf7.debconf.org/wiki/Travel for an example travel page with full information :) 20:36:13 Clint: can you take time for it? 20:36:31 Ganneff: in the second half of this month, probably yes 20:36:36 and get it rolling, together with the local people? 20:36:37 moray, ok, I'll use it as an example 20:36:40 Clint: that sounds great, thanks 20:36:55 #agreed clint (probably) tackles sponsorship team at secnd half of december 20:37:04 we 20:37:05 need to make 20:37:06 anyone else who wants to help is of course welcome 20:37:18 sponsorship brochures for local and international market 20:37:21 #topic sponsorship brochure 20:37:22 I do 20:37:24 I wanna hep 20:37:25 i can give some advices :) 20:37:26 thats part of the topic 20:37:27 AbsintheSyringe, Ganneff can i have access to #debconf-sponsors ? 20:37:36 i think we can take the one from last years and modify it 20:37:39 i want to help! 20:37:42 AbsintheSyringe/Clint: and you should try a round of pings to people who previously worked on sponsorship in the last few years 20:37:43 change_: sure. later. 20:37:47 Ganneff, k tnx 20:38:02 yea 20:38:05 I don't htink 20:38:10 sponsorship is moving anywhere right now tho 20:38:25 or is it too early for brochures, I don't think so 20:38:25 AbsintheSyringe, that's why we need to get it going :) 20:38:35 some of the people who worked pre-debconf10 might be happy to help again after a break, with the right prodding 20:38:36 I think we should have brochures ready when we have website ready 20:38:39 it's never too early to pursue sponsorship 20:38:40 AbsintheSyringe, never to early for that i think :D 20:38:41 yeah. well. i do trust clint to get something running, or come back and tell us it wont work. 20:38:50 moray, who? 20:38:51 AbsintheSyringe: and yes, we need the brochure soon too 20:39:03 AbsintheSyringe: I don't remember offhand, you should be able to check the archives though 20:39:04 paste following 20:39:06 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 1: DrDub MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 2: Ganneff MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 3: holger MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 4: Hydroxide MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 5: mhy MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 6: schultmc MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 7: sgran MASTER 20:39:07 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 8: Sledge MASTER 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 9: bgupta CHANOP 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 10: darst CHANOP 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 11: marga CHANOP 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 12: Maulkin CHANOP 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 13: AbsintheSyringe MEMBER 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 14: ana MEMBER 20:39:08 21:38:03 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 15: AndrewLee MEMBER 20:39:08 21:38:04 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 16: sapphire MEMBER 20:39:09 21:38:04 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 17: vedran_omeragic MEMBER 20:39:09 21:38:04 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 18: zack MEMBER 20:39:09 21:38:04 [OFTC] -ChanServ(services@services.oftc.net)- 19: zumbi MEMBER 20:39:14 those are people you might want to think of pinging 20:39:25 those are the ones currently having access to the sponsors channel 20:39:45 means they did some, whatever kind of, work on it. or had some other reason to be in there. 20:39:56 also, look into the reports of last years, we always had people listed who did work 20:40:36 ok 20:40:38 ok, how are we going to approach this problem, that is how do we start it? 20:40:42 ok. do we have anyone here with a bit of time who wants to take on the sponsorship brochure as their task? 20:40:49