15:00:00 <MrBeige> #startmeeting
15:00:00 <MeatBot> Meeting started Mon Jun 8 19:00:11 2009 UTC. The chair is MrBeige.
15:00:00 <MeatBot> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:00 <MrBeige> *: hi
15:00:00 <h01ger> hi
15:00:00 <Noodles> Yo
15:00:00 <marga> MrBeige: so, you chair?
15:00:00 <MrBeige> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf9/Meetings agenda as usual
15:00:00 <MrBeige> marga: I can #chair anyone who would like to
15:00:00 <MrBeige> but I don't mind doing it
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ alphascorpii] [ christoph] [ Ganneff ] [ madduck] [ paravoid ] [ Tincho ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ also ] [ Clint ] [ gregoa ] [ marga ] [ Q_ ] [ tokkee ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ amaya ] [ cpt_nemo ] [ gwolf ] [ Maulkin] [ RichiH ] [ Tolimar ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ angasule ] [ dam ] [ GyrosGeier] [ maxy_ ] [ rmayorga ] [ TransBot]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ anto ] [ des ] [ h01ger ] [ MeatBot] [ schultmc ] [ weasel ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ aurel32 ] [ edrz ] [ Hydroxide ] [ mhy ] [ schultmc_] [ zer0mdq ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ bdale ] [ enrico ] [ jvw_ ] [ moray ] [ sgran ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ bgupta ] [ faw ] [ karora ] [ MrBeige] [ Sledge ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ blarson ] [ FBI ] [ lucas ] [ Noodles] [ svenk ]
15:00:00 <Ganneff> 21:00:44 [ bubulle ] [ fil ] [ luciano ] [ otavio ] [ thepaul ]
15:01:00 * Clint coughs.
15:01:00 <moray> evening
15:01:00 * Sledge waves
15:01:00 * schultmc waves
15:01:00 <gwolf> ugh, meeting now. Ok, ok
15:01:00 * maxy_ waves
15:01:00 <MrBeige> #topic reconfirmation numbers
15:01:00 <RichiH> arrrr
15:01:00 <anto> heyyy
15:01:00 <MrBeige> http://munin.debconf.org/debconf.org/skinner.debconf.org.html#Pentabarf
15:01:00 * GyrosGeier yawns
15:01:00 <MrBeige> we have 233 reconfirmed right now
15:01:00 * Hydroxide cheers
15:01:00 <MrBeige> but with the travel sponsorship extension, a few more might still do it
15:02:00 <MrBeige> and we can also get more professional
15:02:00 <moray> probably not many, but a few yes
15:02:00 <anto> reconfirmed debcamp?
15:02:00 <moray> can we find (now or later) how many of those want accommodation, etc.?
15:02:00 <moray> I think in previous years the graphs were switched to reconfirmed-only at the deadline
15:02:00 <MrBeige> if a professional registers late, do we provide a room if possible ?
15:02:00 <MrBeige> Ganneff: --^ getting numbers of beds we need
15:02:00 <marga> 190 regular room
15:03:00 <MrBeige> marga: thanks
15:03:00 <Noodles> Do we have definite dates for all reconfirmed attendees (ie they can no longer change them?)
15:03:00 <marga> MrBeige: yes, if we don't provide room, then they are not professional.
15:03:00 <marga> Noodles: no
15:03:00 <moray> Noodles: they should no longer be allowed to extend them, but I'm not sure we've actually checked they have them or send individual reminders like before :/
15:03:00 <MrBeige> how late can they change?
15:03:00 <marga> #info 76 people registered for DebCamp and want accommodation.
15:03:00 <MrBeige> people can change on a "best-effort-to-accommodate-them", right ?
15:04:00 <marga> anto: 76 people for DebCamp
15:04:00 <Ganneff> yes, they could always ever change iirc
15:04:00 <MrBeige> #info 233 reconfirmed as of now
15:04:00 <Noodles> So no need for FdS by a long way.
15:04:00 <cek> hi all
15:04:00 <marga> Hi cek
15:04:00 <h01ger> hey cek
15:04:00 <Noodles> At some point I'm going to want a dump of Penta for arrival/departure/room prefs and after that point anyone who wants to change and expects a room is going to have to ask.
15:04:00 <cek> I'm at Anto's
15:05:00 <marga> So, Ganneff, can you ran a script early tomorrow that anybody who's not reconfirmed get automatically set to non-hosted independent?
15:05:00 <Ganneff> Noodles: talk to me then.
15:05:00 <marga> Noodles: right.
15:05:00 <gwolf> ok... Are we logging people who de-confirmed as well? (/me checks on DB)
15:05:00 <MrBeige> #info MT = 140, FdS = 72, (212 total) so we still need a bit more beds
15:05:00 <Ganneff> Noodles: also, we had a script last years mailing per-day data to rooms@. want this again?
15:05:00 <h01ger> Noodles, i think you should suggest a date
15:05:00 <gwolf> so we know how much uncertainty we still have on the actual arrivals
15:05:00 <Noodles> When are we closing reconfirmation?
15:05:00 <Ganneff> marga: early tomorrow depends on what definition of early.
15:06:00 <marga> Ganneff: well, when you can. I just not want it to be today, since we said we extended it one day due to the travel sponsorship issues.
15:06:00 <MrBeige> Noodles: reconfirmation is "closed" tomorrow for good
15:06:00 <gwolf> ok, good, 0 where reconfirmed is null
15:06:00 <moray> marga: what was 190 above?
15:06:00 <marga> moray: 190 people of the 233 say "Regular Room" in accommodation.
15:06:00 <moray> marga: ok, so we *don't* need more rooms, MrBeige ?
15:06:00 <Noodles> I'd like to send a mail to -announce asking people to put room prefs in Penta / make sure dates are accurate.
15:07:00 <MrBeige> moray: it looks like it right now.
15:07:00 <moray> as by my reckoning 190 < 212
15:07:00 <h01ger> thats including all those people who got their status changed "somehow"?
15:07:00 <Noodles> And then do a dump some time next week and produce a draft room allocation list.
15:07:00 <MrBeige> h01ger: you mean the please select one peoppple ?
15:07:00 <h01ger> yup
15:07:00 <MrBeige> #topic do we need extra rooms ?
15:08:00 <MrBeige> marga: where did you get the number 190 ?
15:08:00 <marga> Uhm, it's weird. I have 190 "Regular Room", 26 "I will arrange my own". I wonder where the other 19 people are
15:08:00 <marga> MrBeige: from Penta.
15:08:00 <moray> h01ger: I think the forensic answer was that only 1 person had evidence of their status changing, the rest penta said never had chosen anything else
15:09:00 <MrBeige> moray, h01ger: we'll discuss this later (it's on the agenda)
15:09:00 <h01ger> moray, i know of at least 2 if not 3
15:09:00 <MrBeige> marga: ok, so independent of category - good
15:09:00 <moray> MrBeige: well, isn't it required to know the answer to the topic?
15:09:00 <Ganneff> h01ger: the log says different
15:10:00 <cek> if we need +30 we need to book it ASAP
15:10:00 <Ganneff> h01ger: we looked at *all* people. only one had it set to something else before, all the rest never had it elsewhere. there never was a "somehow" change
15:10:00 <MrBeige> moray: hm, for now I was assuming we would count them, and will remove after tehy fix it
15:10:00 <h01ger> Ganneff, great
15:10:00 <moray> pardon?
15:10:00 <moray> I don't follow "and will remove after tehy fix it"
15:10:00 <gwolf> marga: Which other 19?
15:11:00 <gwolf> marga the numbers match here...
15:11:00 <marga> No.
15:11:00 <gwolf> Oh, of course
15:11:00 <MrBeige> moray: meaning, assume that their desire for "Regular Room" is correct
15:11:00 <gwolf> _this_ does not make sense:
15:11:00 <gwolf> pentabarf=> SELECT accom, count(*) from debconf.dc_view_numbers where reconfirmed group by accom ;
15:11:00 <gwolf> accom | count
15:11:00 <gwolf> -------------------------------------+-------
15:11:00 <gwolf> I will arrange my own accommodation | 26
15:11:00 <gwolf> Regular Room | 190
15:11:00 <gwolf> I will arrange my own accomodation | 17
15:11:00 <gwolf> (3 rows)
15:11:00 <marga> We are mixing subjects.
15:11:00 <marga> OH MY
15:11:00 <Clint> ouch
15:11:00 <MrBeige> heh
15:11:00 <gwolf> so some will also arrange their own spelling...
15:11:00 <moray> haha
15:12:00 <moray> and does that add to the right total now?
15:12:00 <MrBeige> at least it's not "prioritizing" vs "priortising" or something like that
15:12:00 <marga> How many rooms did we have with FdS+MT, again?
15:12:00 <moray> marga: 212, MrBeige said I think
15:12:00 <MrBeige> marga: 140 + 72 = 212
15:12:00 <marga> gwolf: that gives 2 extra people (235 instead of 233)
15:12:00 <gwolf> select 26+17+190;
15:12:00 <gwolf> ?column?
15:12:00 <gwolf> ----------
15:12:00 <gwolf> 233
15:13:00 <MrBeige> heh
15:13:00 <MrBeige> ok
15:13:00 <marga> Ok, sorry, I'm trying to do 3 different sums at the same time.
15:13:00 <MrBeige> so focusing again: is the number 190 people correct? are we missing anyone here ?
15:13:00 <gwolf> So we are still fine with FdS+MT, yay!
15:13:00 <anto> we have more 30 beds waiting, but we need booke asap
15:13:00 <marga> In any case, we can cover almost everybody who reconfirmed.
15:13:00 <Noodles> How many sponsored people do we have left who haven't reconfirmed?
15:13:00 <moray> anto: it seems we don't need them
15:14:00 <marga> The problem is that most people that are "professional" actually expect to sleep at the same facilities.
15:14:00 <anto> sure?
15:14:00 <MrBeige> anto: is FdS already booked ?
15:14:00 <Noodles> marga: But they're in the 190, aren't they?
15:14:00 <moray> anto: not sure, wait until the end of this topic!
15:14:00 <anto> yes, but i need real dates
15:14:00 <marga> Noodles: the answer is soon to be 0, but currently 109.
15:15:00 <moray> what is 0/109?
15:15:00 <MrBeige> "how many people not in the 190 watn to sleep in our accommadations?" focus on that for now
15:15:00 <Noodles> So it's possible we could have more than 212 people needing a room?
15:15:00 <moray> MrBeige: yes
15:15:00 <marga> Noodles: regarding the other thing, people randomly select stuff. If they selected "Professional" they should get a room, otherwise, they should be "Non-Hosted Independent". This needs to be worked out with each of them.
15:15:00 <marga> Noodles: yes.
15:16:00 <Noodles> I thought the room options were "I'll sort it myself" or "Regular Room"?
15:16:00 <MrBeige> marga: if they select "professional", then they will select "Regular Room" to let us know, that, right? so that it is included ?
15:16:00 <marga> Noodles: yes. But selecting "Professional" and "I'll sort it myself" is a contradiction, and thus needs to be worked out.
15:16:00 <Noodles> Surely if you're choosing professional you still choose regular room.
15:16:00 <bdale> frankly, it's never been entirely obvious to me which boxes I was supposed to check for stuff like this in penta ... I suspect I'm not the only one
15:16:00 <Noodles> How many of those people do we have?
15:16:00 <marga> bdale: indeed you are not.
15:16:00 <moray> marga: it's not a contradiction to me, it means they plan to stay in a hotel
15:16:00 <moray> but want to pay DebConf some money
15:17:00 * h01ger nods bdale
15:17:00 <Noodles> Yeah, that's what I always read it as.
15:17:00 <Noodles> (what moray said)
15:17:00 <MrBeige> marga: could some professional people want to help us out with fees, but not sleep with us ?
15:17:00 <MrBeige> "Regular Room" vs "I want to arrange my own accommodation" is pretty clear
15:17:00 <marga> Noodles: I'm checking, it's difficult with this double accommodation/accomodation option
15:17:00 <moray> yes, I can't see how to misread "I want to arrange my own accommodation"
15:18:00 <gwolf> http://paste.debian.net/38420/ ← Participant category, accomodation
15:18:00 <moray> marga: the spelling doesn't change the meaning, surely?
15:18:00 <marga> 3 Professionals with "I will arrange my own accommodation"
15:18:00 <gwolf> oh, wait
15:18:00 <gwolf> reconfirmed only...
15:18:00 <marga> 2 Corporate with "I will arrange my own accommodation"
15:18:00 <marga> So, 5 people in total.
15:18:00 * gwolf despises SQL...
15:18:00 <moray> ok, so it's not going to take us from 190 to 212 anyway
15:19:00 <marga> moray: wait
15:19:00 <marga> I'm still not finding gunnar's 17 people
15:19:00 <gwolf> http://paste.debian.net/38421/
15:19:00 <h01ger> we have 43 people with "please select participant category"?
15:19:00 <h01ger> 50
15:19:00 * h01ger has a bit fever
15:19:00 <moray> if it's 5, can someone email them to check they didn't somehow read "I will arrange my own accommodation" as "actually I want your accommodation thanks"?
15:19:00 <gwolf> marga: see latest paste, they appear as Non-Hosted Independent | I will arrange my own accomodation | 17
15:19:00 <MrBeige> h01ger: it's a big problem, we will discus later
15:19:00 <gwolf> h01ger: that's without filtering out reconfirmed
15:19:00 <h01ger> MrBeige, ack. maybe adjust /topic?
15:19:00 <gwolf> Still, we still have 3+16 p.s.o.
15:20:00 <MrBeige> #agreed we need to work out penta data, be suer everything is correct. Will involve emailing people
15:20:00 <MrBeige> so this is going on for a while, and we won't make progress here
15:20:00 <gwolf> If names for any group are required... well, just ask
15:20:00 <MrBeige> someone needs to email people and get things fixed up
15:20:00 <Noodles> That's a problem.
15:20:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: but if names are involved do not use a pastebin
15:20:00 <MrBeige> and once that happens, the data for Noodles will be clear
15:20:00 <Noodles> We're close enough to the number of rooms we have that we could need extra.
15:20:00 <marga> Ok, so, we have 15 Indeps with "I will arrange my own". This should be cleared out with them, to see if it's nto a mistake.
15:20:00 <gwolf> of course
15:20:00 <gwolf> Ganneff: I would not put them there, of course
15:20:00 <moray> it is *not* a surprise to me though that they same people whose companies are paying registration fees *don't* want to stay in a shared room with random smelly students
15:21:00 <marga> Ditto for the 5 Prof/Corp
15:21:00 * gwolf is not a student... although might be smelly
15:21:00 <moray> gwolf: neither am I
15:21:00 <MrBeige> #agreed someone emails people with possible penta problems and gets this corrected. Then we get the data for room reservations
15:21:00 <marga> It looks like 212 is about exactly what we need.
15:21:00 <MrBeige> who can volunteer to email people ?
15:21:00 <Noodles> marga: Let's hope so.
15:21:00 <marga> I can do it.
15:21:00 <marga> Noodles: no, but I'm going to add a but.
15:22:00 <moray> the corporate/professionals I can agree to us 'upgrading' if they somehow misread
15:22:00 <MrBeige> #agreed marga works on getting penta data sorted out with attendees
15:22:00 <gwolf> Ganneff: Can we squish the different spellings of "will arrange my own" into a single value?
15:22:00 <gwolf> Just to cleaer things a little...
15:22:00 <marga> **BUT** more people are going to register late, specially people who will get travel sponsorship in the coming weeks.
15:22:00 <moray> I don't see why we would suddenly let *everyone* upgrade to a free room if they didn't ask in time though
15:22:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: possibly. talk to me outside of meeting
15:22:00 <gwolf> ok
15:22:00 <h01ger> we need to define $someone (will mail..)
15:22:00 <h01ger> ah
15:22:00 <h01ger> nevermind
15:23:00 <MrBeige> ok, what is left here
15:23:00 <marga> So, we should consider booking those extra places, but we shouldn't do it until we really need them :-\
15:23:00 <Noodles> Being able to say "We don't have any room" is a fairly decisive no to anyone who's late...
15:23:00 <moray> I'm not happy at us just letting anyone ignore the deadline, "I will arrange my own acommodation" is pretty clear
15:23:00 <moray> Noodles: indeed
15:23:00 <MrBeige> moray: I agree
15:23:00 * h01ger nods
15:23:00 <MrBeige> if a professional selects "I will arrange my own accommodation", then that's done
15:23:00 <MrBeige> however, they *are* paying to stay with us, so they can upgrade if they want
15:23:00 <MrBeige> is that ok ?
15:23:00 <marga> moray: while I agree, I also know that penta is very unfriendly and a lot of people make mistakes, it needs to be cleared.
15:24:00 <Ganneff> *sigh*
15:24:00 <moray> marga: this is now a *long* time after the sponsorship deadline
15:24:00 <marga> MrBeige: either they pay and stay with us, or they don't pay. Getting money from them and not giving them a room is wrong.
15:24:00 <MrBeige> moray: exactly what are you talking about ?
15:24:00 <marga> moray: I know. But nobody cared to explain this earlier on to this people.
15:24:00 <moray> marga: we can't help everyone from their own stupidity, maybe they just forgot to register yet, do you want to let them register now too?
15:24:00 <bdale> just as a comment, other events that I attend provide some sort of information about what other places to stay are near the event location for people who don't want to be in whatever the group dorm situation is... part of what makes Debconf planning hard for me is having the choice be this "binary" ... go with the flow, or have to do all the research myself
15:24:00 <moray> (and get free stuff)
15:24:00 <marga> ...
15:24:00 <MrBeige> marga: corporate pays a lot extra and still get only one room
15:25:00 <marga> MrBeige: I know (although it should be a single room)
15:25:00 <MrBeige> marga: they can choose to not use the room if they want. They know what they are getting
15:25:00 <Noodles> bdale: We were supposed to be providing details of suggested hotels. :(
15:25:00 <marga> MrBeige: anyway, I'll mail everybody and explain the situation.
15:25:00 <marga> So, to answer the topic question.
15:25:00 <h01ger> bdale, ack. "localteam" is too small :( i'll put "get more hotel recommendations on the website" on my todo for next week when i'm there
15:25:00 <bdale> last year, for example, being in the event hotel was just fine... the room I was in was completely reasonable, etc.
15:26:00 * Hydroxide catches up and agrees that it's fine to allow professionals and corporates who didn't ask for a room to upgrade
15:26:00 <moray> marga: I don't think I'm the only one against letting them all have sponsored accommodation, I don't think you should offer that to everyone who didn't ask yet without agreement on that point
15:26:00 <marga> #info With todays numbers, it looks like we won't be needing to book extra rooms. Some adjustments might need to be done later on.
15:26:00 <marga> moray: I'm not going to offer anything, I just will mail them to ask what their situation is.
15:26:00 <MrBeige> moray: If someone registered as professional now, we'd give them a room. So, no reason to not allow previous registered professional to upgrade IF we have space
15:26:00 <bdale> my daughter and I are good examples of people who *could* stay somewhere else nearby if you need more rooms in the main event place, though
15:26:00 <Ganneff> we shouldnt work on the assumptuion "penta is unfriendly and bad". its not that bad, come on. rather, many peoples problem is with *not* reading the full page when doing their details. (it sure can be made better, but its not toal bad)
15:27:00 * MrBeige thinks we should move on. We can AOB this stuff
15:27:00 <moray> MrBeige: I agree it's fine to give it to existing professional/corporate, I don't think we should allow more now though
15:27:00 <MrBeige> moray: what do you mean "more now"?
15:27:00 <moray> MrBeige: once the accommodation is full, at least
15:27:00 <MrBeige> moray: sure
15:27:00 <MrBeige> #topic T-shirt numbers
15:27:00 <gwolf> Ok, this point is by me
15:27:00 <marga> Right, if we haven't got any room left, then people can only register as "Non-hosted"
15:27:00 <moray> MrBeige: I don't think we should allow indefinite registrations in those categories, I think they should be shut, was my point
15:27:00 <MrBeige> we can probably estimate this better, since a little bit extra is ok
15:28:00 <gwolf> ...First of all, we need to get the number (and size) of regular shirts - that's easy, one for each reconfirmed person (and an extra breathing space on each size)
15:28:00 <MrBeige> moray: ah, ok. But if "shut" is caused by us filling up or becomming logistically impopssible, not by us deciding we don't want any more
15:28:00 <gwolf> ...But we also need to have as soon as possible the number and size for organizer, volunteer and video
15:28:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: let the sql run, paste here. we add 20%. numbers. yay
15:29:00 <gwolf> Ganneff: That number does not matter much, as I have it
15:29:00 <gwolf> Ganneff: I am more concerned about the other threee
15:29:00 <marga> gwolf: volunteer and video are a wild guess.
15:29:00 <moray> the penta fields for orga/volunteer are normally rubbish, better to do that manually I fear
15:29:00 <marga> gwolf: orga you can get from the sql
15:29:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: huh? you should have them for all categories. at least for those that filled them out
15:29:00 <moray> random people we've never heard of choose orga in penta :)
15:29:00 * h01ger adds videoteam tshirt sizes on his todo. until when, gwolf?
15:29:00 <Ganneff> volunteers we have to econd guess how many will add themself during the conf
15:29:00 <gwolf> marga: nope, the 'organizer' value in Penta is (sigh) meaningless
15:29:00 <Noodles> I'm in Penta as a DD.
15:29:00 <gwolf> you can either be a DD or an orga
15:29:00 <marga> moray: that should be fixed
15:29:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: so?
15:30:00 <marga> gwolf: so?
15:30:00 <gwolf> h01ger: For as soon as possible :)
15:30:00 <h01ger> yes. (should be fixed)
15:30:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: that doesnt make it meaningless
15:30:00 <gwolf> We need to start printing a week from now
15:30:00 <h01ger> gwolf, manana?
15:30:00 <h01ger> ;)
15:30:00 <h01ger> ack
15:30:00 <Hydroxide> h01ger: you forgot the ~
15:30:00 <MrBeige> can we just say the numbers of people in the categoiries instead of debating whether penta is good or not ?
15:30:00 <gwolf> h01ger: Locale.set('de'); manana
15:30:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: instead the values for orga/volunteer in penta are just added to the global number of attendee shirts. done.
15:30:00 <MrBeige> we haven't done enough penta data checking
15:30:00 <h01ger> Hydroxide, what gwolf said :)
15:31:00 <gwolf> I can perfectly do with guessing numbers for video and volunteers, will do so and just check by mail
15:31:00 <Sledge> gwolf: sounds good
15:31:00 <gwolf> but as for organizers, I don't want any of you to be missing
15:31:00 <Hydroxide> gwolf: for orga team, maybe everyone who's mentioned at http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf9/Teams ?
15:31:00 <MrBeige> h01ger: can you make a list of number of video people ?
15:31:00 <gwolf> Hydroxide: That's what I wanted to hear
15:31:00 <gwolf> Everybody, if you are not listed in that wiki page, add yourself
15:31:00 <MrBeige> who can list the number of orga people ?
15:31:00 <Hydroxide> everyone speak up now if you're not on that page
15:31:00 <h01ger> MrBeige, no, but i will :)
15:31:00 <Hydroxide> yes
15:31:00 <gwolf> so, we can #agree on that and move on
15:32:00 <gwolf> and h01ger, also add the numbers for videoteam there, please
15:32:00 <marga> gwolf: uhm, please check that the people are actually going. I'm not going and MrBeige isn't either.
15:32:00 <Hydroxide> marga: you two should still get orga T-shirts
15:32:00 <gwolf> marga: You are getting a shirt anyway
15:32:00 <MrBeige> #agreed add yourself to http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf9/Teams if you want an orga shirt
15:32:00 <h01ger> gwolf, on the teams page? oki
15:32:00 <marga> gwolf: also, keep in mind that people like to buy t-shirts for their friends.
15:32:00 <gwolf> yup, we will have a bit extra
15:32:00 <gwolf> we should later see what "bit" means.
15:32:00 <marga> ok.
15:32:00 <marga> MrBeige: next?
15:33:00 <gwolf> next.
15:33:00 <Sledge> gwolf: will we be ok to get more made afterwards if needed?
15:33:00 <Ganneff> gwolf: 3 for me, attendee and orga :)
15:33:00 <MrBeige> #info h01ger makes list of videoteam shirts
15:33:00 <gwolf> Sledge: possibly. But it is expensive to ship them anyway
15:33:00 <MrBeige> #info add yoruself to the Teams page if you want an orga shirt
15:33:00 <gwolf> so I'd very much rather have them all
15:33:00 <Sledge> gwolf: ack
15:33:00 <MrBeige> #info for total shirts, use Penta registration numbers + a percentage
15:33:00 <gwolf> (I can lug ~10-15 with me if needed)
15:33:00 <MrBeige> what other numbers are missing ?
15:33:00 <Ganneff> do we have a design?
15:33:00 <moray> gwolf will bring no clothes for himself, just conference t-shirts :)
15:33:00 <marga> Yes, that was discussed on list.
15:34:00 <gwolf> Ganneff: More or less, we have two proposed Valessio designs
15:34:00 <moray> someone needs to do the logo part
15:34:00 <Ganneff> k
15:34:00 <Hydroxide> moray: re gwolf's attire, you forgot the #agreed :P
15:34:00 <gwolf> AH!
15:34:00 <moray> I think h01ger made sure we actually have the logos this time though!
15:34:00 <gwolf> and we do need something
15:34:00 <MrBeige> #topic sponsorship team report
15:34:00 <marga> moray: The sponsors par?
15:34:00 <moray> marga: yes
15:34:00 <MrBeige> moving on
15:34:00 <gwolf> We need the printable list of sponsors
15:34:00 <gwolf> vectorized and nice.
15:34:00 <cek> there are still some logos missing
15:34:00 <h01ger> aehm. right so next week is deadline for sponsors for tshirts? the 15th?
15:34:00 <gwolf> Hydroxide: I almost only have conference-made shirts anyway... :-)
15:34:00 <marga> MrBeige: which sponsorship team?
15:34:00 <MrBeige> #chair moray
15:35:00 <MeatBot> Chair added: moray
15:35:00 <moray> gwolf: (always the fun part, I remember hacking EPS for this before...)
15:35:00 <gwolf> moray: I remember hacking the PDF at our supplier's office as it came out wrong :-/
15:35:00 <MrBeige> i'm not sure which team this is about
15:35:00 <MrBeige> #info travel sponsorship sent out
15:35:00 <marga> Ok, let's do both :)
15:35:00 <MrBeige> any news from Sponsorship acquisition team ?
15:35:00 <moray> 'sponsorship' alone normally means incoming in debconf
15:35:00 <moray> don't know why :)
15:35:00 <Hydroxide> Sledge: ^^^
15:35:00 <Sledge> not really
15:36:00 <MrBeige> #info not much new from sponsors
15:36:00 <MrBeige> ok, good, we can move on
15:36:00 <marga> #info 35 people sponsored for 15k€, 26 people in the waiting list for 10k€ more.
15:36:00 <Sledge> we have a few sponsors still in negotiations, but most are invoiced now I think
15:36:00 <moray> maybe remind people how we stand for sponsorship vs. budget, I thikn that changed since the last English meeting?
15:36:00 <MrBeige> moray: basically the results of the budget team meeting ?
15:36:00 * fil waves -- not invoiced AFAIK
15:36:00 <moray> (though I don't know how many people are watching who don't come to the Spanish ones/budget meeting/etc.)
15:37:00 <moray> MrBeige: a one-line version would be nice supposing anyone less hard core is watching :)
15:37:00 * Sledge tickles fil
15:37:00 <marga> Of those 10k€ extra, it'd be really nice to get the first 4k€ in, since it means 10 more people sponsored, some of them speakers.
15:37:00 * gwolf disapperas for 2min
15:38:00 <MrBeige> #info we currently have about 103k pledged (or expected from attendee fees)
15:38:00 <Noodles> fil: Your category says "Please select one" for me.
15:38:00 <MrBeige> #info 15k was sent out for travel sponosrship
15:38:00 <moray> marga: if we're giving more money, it's certainly better to do so ASAP due to the room numbers
15:38:00 <MrBeige> #info please send updated numbers for what we need to spend money on!
15:38:00 <marga> moray: yes.
15:38:00 <marga> moray: indeed.
15:39:00 <moray> marga: and/or to check with those people if they still *might* come
15:39:00 <MrBeige> I don't think there is much more useful at this topic
15:39:00 <marga> anto: when do we know if FdS is sponsored or not?
15:39:00 <MrBeige> #topic accommodation status
15:39:00 <gwolf> back
15:39:00 <MrBeige> #info number of beds we need are in the first topic
15:40:00 <MrBeige> < marga> anto: when do we know if FdS is sponsored or not?
15:40:00 <anto> i need send a economic proposal to the council of cáceres, but i need the real dates for FdS
15:40:00 <Noodles> DebConf proper.
15:40:00 <Noodles> 23rd -> 31st.
15:40:00 <marga> anto: DebConf proper, yes.
15:40:00 <Noodles> ie the nights of 23rd -> 30th.
15:40:00 <marga> gwolf: can you do the query with the days for people, taking reconfirmation into account?
15:41:00 <Noodles> 23rd is when 80+ people arrive.
15:41:00 <marga> ok.
15:41:00 <marga> Yes, so 23rd.
15:41:00 <Ganneff> wait, we do have that query from previous years
15:41:00 <Ganneff> if you want beds per night
15:41:00 <moray> yes
15:41:00 <cek> ok, that is ~12k from 23rd to 31st
15:41:00 <Noodles> Entrance shows me enough to know the 23rd is the important date.
15:41:00 <Ganneff> dont bother, we have that.
15:41:00 <moray> Ganneff: if that still works, a dump of that would be good
15:41:00 <MrBeige> #action Ganneff gets beds per night for us
15:41:00 <moray> Ganneff: and start spamming someone with it maybe -- anto?
15:41:00 <cek> probably we know if FdS is sponsored at the end of the week
15:41:00 <Ganneff> moray: of course it does.
15:41:00 <marga> moray: no, Noodles
15:41:00 <Ganneff> rooms@ i think
15:41:00 <MrBeige> #info we know we need FdS only starting on the first arrival day
15:42:00 <moray> marga: right
15:42:00 <Ganneff> will do after meeting
15:42:00 <MrBeige> what else do we need about FdS ?
15:42:00 <marga> cek, anto: ok. That's good. Please let us know.
15:42:00 <cek> ok
15:42:00 <MrBeige> #topic food status
15:42:00 <gwolf> marga: http://paste.debian.net/38424/
15:42:00 <cek> we are writting the proposal right now :)
15:42:00 <Noodles> What am I getting spammed with? :P
15:42:00 <gwolf> This is arrivals, not beds per night
15:43:00 <Noodles> A daily arrivals mail?
15:43:00 <MrBeige> gwolf: can you discuss this later ?
15:43:00 <Ganneff> a daily mail of "day X has Y people sleeping"
15:43:00 <gwolf> MrBeige: of course
15:43:00 <Ganneff> Noodles: ^^
15:43:00 <Noodles> Why a daily mail?
15:43:00 <MrBeige> #agreed Noodles gwolf and Ganneff work on getting the queries for beds per night
15:43:00 <MrBeige> move on
15:43:00 <MrBeige> food stuff
15:43:00 <marga> So
15:43:00 <marga> food stuff
15:43:00 <moray> do we have *fixed* food prices yet?
15:43:00 <marga> I brought this on the list.
15:43:00 <marga> anto: do we know how much food is going to cost?
15:44:00 <anto> 15 € + vat
15:44:00 <MrBeige> 15€ per day ?
15:44:00 <marga> anto: how much is vat? and what about without breakfast?
15:44:00 <MrBeige> for three meals ?
15:45:00 <Noodles> Is this an external catering company?
15:45:00 <anto> yes and per person
15:45:00 <anto> yes
15:45:00 <Ganneff> Noodles: you have mail, query run once.
15:45:00 <MrBeige> can it be cheaper without breakfast ?
15:45:00 <Noodles> So does that mean we don't save any money if people don't eat?
15:45:00 <moray> some of the room prices already included breakfast
15:46:00 <moray> is that part of this 15 euros or do they get two breakfasts?
15:46:00 * MrBeige has same questions as moray
15:46:00 <marga> anto: you may answer in Spanish, if it's easier, I can translate
15:47:00 <cek> vat is 16 %
15:47:00 <cek> and food is 7%
15:47:00 <marga> ??
15:47:00 <gwolf> are they cumulative?
15:47:00 <cek> no
15:47:00 <gwolf> Is it 16%+7%
15:47:00 <gwolf> oh
15:47:00 <cek> no
15:48:00 <marga> cek: so, vat is 7% ?
15:48:00 <cek> 7% for food, yes
15:48:00 <marga> ok
15:48:00 <moray> why do we care about VAT? or is that *on top* of the 15 euros?
15:48:00 <MrBeige> 16% for everything except food ?
15:48:00 <bdale> moray: he said 15 + vat
15:48:00 <marga> That's €16,05 final.
15:48:00 <Noodles> €16.05/day/person then?
15:48:00 <MrBeige> #info VAT is 16%, tax for food is 7%
15:48:00 <cek> yes, Noodles
15:48:00 <marga> anto: we want the number without breakfast for the FdS people.
15:48:00 <moray> bdale: ah, I missed that as MrBeige said 15 currently, which had been the frequently quoted figure up till this evenin
15:49:00 <MrBeige> #info 16.05€ /person/day
15:49:00 <moray> s/currently/concurrently/
15:49:00 <bdale> moray: np
15:49:00 <cek> marga, with or without breakfast is the same price
15:49:00 <marga> !!!!
15:49:00 <moray> marga: I think the breakfast is really in the room prices
15:49:00 * bdale is paying more attention than sometimes because his regularly scheduled teleconf at this time isn't happening today...
15:49:00 <marga> moray: for MT as well?
15:49:00 <Ganneff> poor bdale, only one meeting to follow
15:49:00 <Ganneff> .)
15:50:00 <marga> cek: it doesn't make sense for it to be the same price with or without breakfast. How can this be?
15:50:00 <moray> marga: I'm not sure, I only answer while I wait for authoritative info
15:51:00 <Ganneff> marga: simple. they just dont have the option "no breakfast". but you are free to not go to get your food.
15:51:00 <cek> marga, this is what they offer, we can take it or leave it
15:51:00 <gwolf> marga: Many lodgings give you a very meager breakfast included
15:51:00 <gwolf> they just don't offer lodging without it
15:51:00 <marga> gwolf: no, no. This is from the external caterer.
15:51:00 <MrBeige> cek: are there, maybe, other catering options which are cheaper, or could not have breakfast ?
15:52:00 <gwolf> marga: I understood so as well, but only this way it would make sense :)
15:52:00 <marga> cek: the people at FdS are going to get breakfast there, we don't want to pay for their breakfast twice.
15:52:00 <cek> MrBeige, no
15:52:00 <cek> 15 € breakfast, lunch and dinner is a very good price for Cáceres
15:53:00 <cek> marga, of course, we are not paying breakfast for them
15:53:00 <marga> cek: we don't deny it, it just doesn't make sense to pay for so many double breakfasts
15:53:00 <marga> cek: so? how much is it without breakfast?
15:53:00 <cek> we are calculating right now
15:54:00 <moray> I thought it was 16 now?
15:54:00 <marga> moray: it's 15+vat
15:54:00 <MrBeige> moray: let's assume mentally that we mean the same thing when we say 16 and 15
15:54:00 <cek> 2,45+vat is breakfast
15:55:00 <cek> so it is -(2.45*74)
15:55:00 <MrBeige> cek: from the caterer ?
15:55:00 <cek> yes
15:55:00 <marga> Yes, € 13,74
15:55:00 <MrBeige> cek: ok, so we can exclude that from the price if we want ?
15:55:00 <cek> yes, MrBeige
15:56:00 <MrBeige> cek: can we exclude it from people staying at MT too ?
15:56:00 <cek> not from MT
15:56:00 <cek> in MT the breakfast we have is the one from the catereer
15:56:00 <MrBeige> why can't we from MT ? the company won't give us lunch then ?
15:57:00 <MrBeige> cek: at some conferences, we don't pay for breakfasts since people aren't awake and end up not eating it. Can we do that here ?
15:57:00 <Ganneff> s/at some/ at past/
15:57:00 <Ganneff> like, in mexico noone got sponsored breakfast
15:57:00 <Ganneff> same for dc7
15:57:00 <gwolf> neither at Edinburgh
15:57:00 <anto> that is not posible
15:57:00 <moray> yes, no one had seemed to miss it in Mexico
15:57:00 <gwolf> And many people didn't even mind
15:57:00 <gwolf> anto: Many people sleep late
15:58:00 <gwolf> in Argentina many people never knew there was a breakfast :)
15:58:00 <anto> ok, i ask it
15:58:00 <moray> gwolf: in Helsinki a few people ate a *lot* of sandwiches
15:58:00 <MrBeige> anto: thanks, it would be very good if we could exclude it
15:58:00 <fil> in HEL people that got breakfast wished they hadn't ;-)
15:58:00 <moray> I'm still confused about the double breakfasts too
15:58:00 <marga_w> My connection died.
15:58:00 <gwolf> fil: +1
15:59:00 <marga_w> Can I get a private paste of the lines between my "Yes, € 13,74" and my connection, please??
15:59:00 <Noodles> If we don't sponsor breakfast is there anywhere to get breakfast though?
15:59:00 <MrBeige> marga_w: done
16:01:00 <MrBeige> anto: < Noodles> If we don't sponsor breakfast is there anywhere to get breakfast though?
16:02:00 <marga_w> So, regardles of the breakfast stuff that anto will look into: s there a reason why the Professional fee wouldn't include food?
16:02:00 <MrBeige> marga_w: topic for later
16:02:00 <MrBeige> (please)
16:02:00 <marga_w> MrBeige: ah, I thought it was this same topic, sorry.
16:02:00 <Noodles> It's the next one.
16:03:00 <moray> are we there yet / if not can someone numerate and Spanish-speaking try to establish the breakfast/meals stuff outside the meeting?
16:03:00 <MrBeige> yes
16:03:00 <MrBeige> we should probably move on
16:03:00 <MrBeige> who are the action people here ?
16:03:00 <cek> Noodles, yes, there are some Cafeterías nearby. For example the one at the Hospital is very cheap and close
16:03:00 <Noodles> We've established that we don't have to double pay for breakfasts, which is the important bit, right?
16:03:00 <marga> So, total food cost would be 140*€16,05 and 72*€13,74
16:03:00 <marga> Ok, so, the other part of the food stuff.
16:03:00 <marga> Is there a reason why the Professional fee wouldn't include food?
16:03:00 <MrBeige> #action marga, cek and anto work on establishing the brekfasts
16:03:00 <gwolf> marga: Not that I can see
16:04:00 <Noodles> I thought we'd decided over the course of the week that we're including food with professional.
16:04:00 <MrBeige> #topic what does professional fee include
16:04:00 <moray> marga: the only reason I didn't want to say it definitely did earlier was not knowing hte food costs
16:04:00 <Noodles> I certainly approve of that.
16:04:00 <gwolf> marga: They are told basically that they are paying for their lodging+food expenses
16:04:00 <moray> marga: now we know them, and it seems fine to include
16:04:00 <MrBeige> ok
16:04:00 <gwolf> of course, unless they specify not to want it
16:04:00 <marga> Ok.
16:04:00 <moray> as it works out, by luck, to the right amount
16:04:00 <marga> Then we should inform this
16:04:00 <moray> yes
16:04:00 <MrBeige> #agreed Professional includes food (if they want it)
16:04:00 <marga> The information has been sadly unclear on this front.
16:04:00 <MrBeige> #action MrBeige goes and corrects the correction
16:05:00 <MrBeige> Now, we agreed that Professional can get accommodation with us, correct ?
16:05:00 <moray> this mail to them should probably say the true costs for accomm and food, so they understand fully
16:05:00 <marga> Yes.
16:05:00 <moray> MrBeige: if they thought they asked for it before, definitely
16:05:00 <moray> or if we still have rooms
16:05:00 <marga> Also, about this, we now know that the cost of having a single room is €6 per night, but there are only a few single rooms.
16:05:00 <MrBeige> #agreed Professional also gets accommodation from us, presuming that they let us know on time that it is logistically feasible. It doesn't "close" except when it gets too late for us to get an extra room
16:06:00 <moray> (the mail should say full costs as some think they are donating by paying the fee, others think they are just paying a hotel, etc.)
16:06:00 <marga> MrBeige: I think it closes when we fill the 212 (or 242 if we book the other place, but doesn't look likely) beds.
16:06:00 <MrBeige> marga: that sounds good
16:06:00 <MrBeige> does everyone agree with marga ?
16:06:00 <marga> About the single rooms....
16:06:00 <Noodles> I'm a bit uneasy about that.
16:06:00 <MrBeige> should we agree now to cap total accommodations at 212 ?
16:07:00 <Noodles> (Keeping it open until we run out that is)
16:07:00 <moray> I'm also unreasy about indefinite increases in people
16:07:00 <moray> especially as we still have the sponsorship waiting list
16:07:00 <gwolf> I will have to leave mid-meeting - I'm being waited for
16:07:00 <gwolf> ...catch up later.
16:07:00 <MrBeige> how about we say "cap at 212 now, but if when fixing up penta data we need more, then up it by some amount" ?
16:07:00 <Noodles> I think anyone currently listed as Professional can have a room if they haven't already asked for one.
16:08:00 <moray> Noodles: right, but that should be one round of emails now
16:08:00 <Noodles> I think anyone who hasn't registered yet probably needs to sort themselves out.
16:08:00 <marga> Noodles: yes.
16:08:00 <marga> I agree.
16:08:00 <moray> marga: which is different from MrBeige's suggestion above
16:08:00 <MrBeige> #agreed timeline of *One Week* to fix up penta data, so that we can actually make decisions based on data
16:08:00 <moray> MrBeige: yeah
16:08:00 <MrBeige> and after that ---^, we will be in a position to answer these.
16:08:00 <MrBeige> sound good ?
16:09:00 <marga> Yes.
16:09:00 <MrBeige> ok
16:09:00 <MrBeige> good
16:09:00 <MrBeige> so that includes, professionals have one week to say they want a room
16:09:00 <marga> I guess we can decide next week if we go for 212 or 242. We won't need more than that.
16:09:00 <MrBeige> before it goes into "only if it's logistically posssible" mode.
16:09:00 <moray> mrbeige: if they registered already -- though we should give them a shorter deadline anyway of course
16:09:00 <moray> I don't think we should assume they got it wrong though
16:10:00 <marga> moray: I'll mail them today and ask for replies ASAP, deadline: Friday.
16:10:00 <MrBeige> moray: but a new professional can register and we will give them a room, if it is logistically possible
16:10:00 <Noodles> I want to draft an -announce mail regarding penta 'n stuff.
16:10:00 <marga> MrBeige: it very much looks like it won't be.
16:10:00 <moray> MrBeige: I wouldn't really encourage that at this stage, until we know better
16:10:00 <marga> So, better register as Non-Hosted.
16:10:00 <MrBeige> marga: ok
16:10:00 <Noodles> What marga said.
16:10:00 <MrBeige> marga: sounds fair
16:10:00 <MrBeige> let's move on?
16:10:00 <marga> Yes, please
16:10:00 <MrBeige> #topic billing for food and other on-site payments
16:11:00 <Noodles> If we're flat paying for food is there any ability to bill per meal?
16:11:00 <MrBeige> anto: you said that the caterer can accept payments for food on-site each day ?
16:11:00 <Noodles> It sounds like we need to bill up front if it applies to anyone.
16:11:00 <marga> Noodles: the Non-Hosted people might choose to pay
16:11:00 <Noodles> marga: Yes, but can the caterer cope with that rather than us having to deal with it?
16:11:00 <MrBeige> Noodles: anto said that people could pay per-day there if they wanted, we need to see how that will work
16:11:00 <Noodles> That would be best for us obviously. :)
16:11:00 <marga> I guess
16:11:00 <moray> we would prefer them to pay the caterer yes
16:12:00 <cek> MrBeige, yes, we can accept payments on-site each day
16:12:00 <marga> cek: "we" ?
16:12:00 <MrBeige> cek: who is "we" ?
16:12:00 <Noodles> How have we done on site payments in the past for rooms?
16:12:00 <marga> Noodles: not too well
16:12:00 <moray> Noodles: I think we avoided it generally
16:12:00 <cek> the caterer or the orga team
16:12:00 <moray> Noodles: they paid other people
16:12:00 <marga> Noodles: we gave them a receipt, which wasn't too legal.
16:12:00 <Noodles> Why not?
16:12:00 <moray> yes, it's bad for tax etc. to handle the money
16:12:00 <MrBeige> cek: so we can say they will pay the caterer, and let them handle everything (except what we pre-pay for?)
16:12:00 <marga> Noodles: well, our tax legislation is very strict.
16:13:00 <Noodles> But such tasty steak makes up for it.
16:13:00 <Noodles> Do we want to get people to pay us up front for professional/corporate then?
16:14:00 <moray> Noodles: I doubt any of us want to have to put through this stuff on our personal tax returns (in Spain?), and there's no DebConf-specific local entity...
16:14:00 <Noodles> Because we need to push that soon in order for people to have time.
16:14:00 <MrBeige> #agreed caterer handles all money related to food
16:14:00 <MrBeige> Noodles: yes, I think they should all pre-pay (they are supposed to be done by now)
16:14:00 * h01ger wonders if we can close this topic now or should just move on, keep it open for next time
16:14:00 <moray> MrBeige: was that definitely agreed? I hope so, but not sure
16:14:00 <MrBeige> cek: so we can let the caterer handle all food money, and we don't have to touch it ?
16:14:00 <Noodles> There have only been a handful of SPI payments I've seen. h01ger, can you do an FFIS check at some point?
16:15:00 <Noodles> I know at least one person who claims to have paid that way.
16:15:00 * h01ger does now
16:15:00 <cek> MrBeige, we have to ask them
16:15:00 <MrBeige> #agreed (check previosu agreed to be sure it is correct)
16:15:00 <MrBeige> cek: ok, can you do that for us soon ?
16:15:00 <MrBeige> #action cek asks caterer if they can handle all food money
16:15:00 <cek> yes, we will write a mail
16:15:00 <schultmc> 4 prof payments via SPI that I've seen
16:16:00 <MrBeige> cek: thank you
16:16:00 <cek> uw
16:16:00 <Noodles> schultmc: Thankfully that matches what I've seen. :)
16:16:00 * marga needs to go soon.
16:16:00 <MrBeige> #topic "--- please select one---" people
16:16:00 <MrBeige> So, penta is loved by some and hated by some
16:16:00 <Ganneff> besides one they all had please select one set when saving their data!
16:16:00 <Ganneff> and never changed it then
16:17:00 <marga> Ok, people in this category include people that actually lost their data, people who didn't know what to select, and people who don't know why they are in that category.
16:17:00 <MrBeige> Ganneff: we know that side of the story. But that doesn't change the fact that we generally agree we need to do somtihng about it
16:17:00 <h01ger> 10k E from sponsors and 1550 from attendees on the ffis accoutn
16:17:00 <Ganneff> marga: noone lost their data!
16:17:00 * fil somehow got the impression that I'd saved "Independant" *shrug*
16:18:00 <MrBeige> Ganneff: let's not discuss that, we know that side of the story. but we still have to do something
16:18:00 <marga> Ganneff: ok, one person is logged as having saved one thing and then the other. That's whay I meant by "lost"
16:18:00 <Ganneff> marga: *everyone* has intentionally saved it as this, according to *all* our logs. and kept it this way. (beides one who changed it once)
16:18:00 <MrBeige> Ganneff: please, can we move past the technical details?
16:18:00 <Noodles> So no matter how it happened, what do we do?
16:18:00 <Ganneff> MrBeige: i just want to avoid having false text spread about it.
16:18:00 <Noodles> Email each person and ask them to correct? How many people?
16:18:00 <marga> Noodles: they can "correct"
16:18:00 <marga> It's 19 people.
16:18:00 <Noodles> So not a huge number.
16:18:00 <Ganneff> fil: you did for dc8/7, but not dc9, sorry.
16:19:00 <Hydroxide> Ganneff: let's not claim anything about intentions - we know what they did or didn't do, but we don't know what they meant to do. let's focus on how to fix it.
16:19:00 <Noodles> I say email them and get them to fix it asap (next 2 days?)
16:19:00 <MrBeige> #info 36 attendees marked p.s.o, 13 of these are reconfirmed (as of my last check)
16:19:00 <marga> Noodles: again, they can't
16:19:00 <Noodles> 13 or 19?
16:19:00 * h01ger nods Hydroxide
16:19:00 <Noodles> Oh, they need to email us to correct it?
16:19:00 <marga> It's 19.
16:19:00 <marga> Yes, they need to email us.
16:19:00 <fil> how does one fix it BTW -- I've certainly tried a few times
16:19:00 <MrBeige> #agreed Fixing this is included in the one-week deadline for fixing up penta alluded to above
16:20:00 <moray> Hydroxide: right, we shouldn't spread the impression that they got changed by penta, though
16:20:00 <MrBeige> marga: will your penta emails include talking about this ?
16:20:00 <fil> ah
16:20:00 <Ganneff> fil: mailto pentabarf@penta.debconf.org
16:20:00 <Hydroxide> moray: fair point as well.
16:20:00 <marga> MrBeige: I can do that.
16:20:00 <MrBeige> marga: so you will email people who have this problem ?
16:20:00 <MrBeige> marga: thanks
16:20:00 <MrBeige> #action marga works on fixing these category problems
16:20:00 <marga> So, I mail this 19 people, explain them what their current status is and ask them what they want to do.
16:21:00 <marga> OK?
16:21:00 <Noodles> Sounds good.
16:21:00 <MrBeige> And if they registered on time, then the ycan go back to sponsored. But they don't get to go to Sponsored if they selected some other category
16:21:00 <MrBeige> does that sound good ?
16:21:00 <moray> MrBeige: yes
16:21:00 <marga> ok.
16:21:00 <h01ger> shouldnt we mail all those people who said they wanted to come but havent reconfirmed? or is that kindergarten handholding?
16:21:00 <MrBeige> #info And if they registered on time, then the ycan go back to sponsored. But they don't get to go to Sponsored if they selected some other category
16:21:00 <moray> and if they think something went wrong, ask their browser etc.
16:21:00 <Ganneff> h01ger: handholding.
16:21:00 <Ganneff> h01ger: we did have the reconfirm reminders
16:22:00 <marga> For that I need the logs. Ganneff: could you get me the dates of registration for those that are currently p.s.o ?
16:22:00 <MrBeige> Ganneff: only one
16:22:00 <Ganneff> MrBeige: that should be enough
16:22:00 <moray> MrBeige: they only needed to tick one button, not do something time-consuming
16:22:00 <MrBeige> ok
16:23:00 <MrBeige> #action Ganneff gets marga registration logs of pso people
16:23:00 <moray> (though I wouldn't have been against another reminder)
16:23:00 <MrBeige> moray: another reminder is a simple courtesey, which I think is a good thing
16:23:00 <MrBeige> anyway
16:23:00 <marga> Can we move on?
16:24:00 <moray> also on reconfirmation, we've now told waiting-list people they can still reconfirm later if we get more money
16:24:00 <marga> Yes, those are 26 people.
16:24:00 <moray> so we need to bear that in mind for numbers if we give more
16:24:00 <marga> Bah, I don't know how many haven't actually reconfirmed.
16:24:00 <MrBeige> #topic food category
16:24:00 <moray> marga: <= 26, presumably :)
16:24:00 <MrBeige> marga: 31 pso who haven't reconfirmed
16:24:00 <moray> MrBeige: <= 26 out of the waiting-list
16:25:00 <moray> what's this topic?
16:25:00 <MrBeige> marga: can you also email people who are paying for their own food, and be sure that they know what they are getting into ?
16:25:00 <marga> MrBeige: no, from the people in the waiting list of travel sponsorship. There's 26 people there, I guess some are coming anyway and some are not. We haven't checked how many are waiting for the sponsorship to reconfirm.
16:25:00 <MrBeige> marga: or include that in other emails, or whatever ?
16:25:00 <marga> MrBeige: sure, yes.
16:25:00 <MrBeige> marga, moray: oh, never mind, sorry
16:25:00 <marga> MrBeige: I now fear I'll forget some of the mails I need to send...
16:26:00 <MrBeige> #action marga also sends out emails to people who are listed as paying for their own food, to be sure they know what they are getting into
16:26:00 <MrBeige> marga: hopefully I have action'ed enough of them
16:26:00 <moray> the thing we had before that we lacked this year was the mail-merged status mails
16:26:00 <moray> those would have made people spot that "your status is Please Select One" etc.
16:26:00 <marga> Yeah...
16:26:00 <moray> or given more chance of it
16:26:00 <marga> :_\
16:27:00 <MrBeige> the last time I checked, of *Sponsored* people, 151 requested food and 66 didn't
16:27:00 <moray> MrBeige: and you've been budgetting by that, or by 151+66?
16:27:00 <marga> MrBeige: was this taken into account in the finances?
16:28:00 <MrBeige> I have so far assumed that we are paying for everyone to eat with us
16:28:00 <marga> ok
16:28:00 <MrBeige> and that no one will pay us any extra for it
16:28:00 <MrBeige> so, it is incorrect, but incorrect in the good way
16:28:00 <marga> It's big list, I'll probably recruit someone to get the mails into a csv for me.
16:28:00 <moray> again, I don't object to a questioning email then, but again we should write it with the assumption they chose the right thing
16:28:00 * h01ger thinks the meeting takes too long and got sidetracked into too much details. or IOW: i cannot follow
16:29:00 <marga> Yes
16:29:00 <marga> I agree, and I need to leave very soon.
16:29:00 <MrBeige> moray: sure, but I don't want ot assume that too much until after the one-week deadline
16:29:00 <MrBeige> yes, we are almost done
16:29:00 <marga> Let's move on.
16:29:00 <moray> Yes.
16:29:00 <MrBeige> #topic open day status
16:29:00 <MrBeige> #chair marga
16:29:00 <MeatBot> Chair added: marga
16:29:00 <MrBeige> (now marga *and* moray are chairs)
16:29:00 <moray> Any change here?
16:29:00 <MrBeige> who has openday status ?
16:29:00 <moray> that needs to be discussed today?
16:29:00 <marga> I sent a few suggestions, I got no replies.
16:30:00 <MrBeige> probably not anything to be discussed now
16:30:00 <MrBeige> only more prodding
16:30:00 <moray> I think there's still no selected talks, and that that 'should' happen soon
16:30:00 <h01ger> yes
16:30:00 <moray> (next topic?)
16:30:00 <marga> Yes, question is: who's in charge?
16:30:00 <moray> ah
16:30:00 <cek> can we have exceptions or should we focused on the sponsored status?
16:30:00 <moray> I thought we knew that
16:30:00 <marga> If we could at least settle that....
16:30:00 <MrBeige> #action MrBeige continues prodding openday people
16:30:00 <h01ger> cek, ?
16:30:00 <marga> cek: for the stands, you mean?
16:30:00 <MrBeige> an3as, gwolf, and tassia are the ones in charge
16:30:00 <anto> for example
16:31:00 <marga> MrBeige: of Open Day?
16:31:00 <MrBeige> marga: correct
16:31:00 <cek> stands and talks
16:31:00 <marga> anto: for the stands, holger already replied that it's € 1000
16:31:00 <anto> ok
16:31:00 <marga> We don't have a price for talks... I don't know if there's any decision about that.
16:31:00 <h01ger> cek, are the talks in penta?
16:32:00 <cek> h01ger, not in penta
16:32:00 <h01ger> marga, platinum, or?
16:32:00 <h01ger> cek, please get them in penta
16:32:00 <marga> h01ger: yes, platinum or €1000.
16:32:00 <h01ger> else the schedulign will not happen?
16:32:00 <h01ger> else the schedulign will not happen!
16:32:00 <h01ger> marga, 1000 for a talk is very cheap
16:32:00 <cek> I will ping them...
16:32:00 <marga> h01ger: ah! Sorry, had not understood.
16:32:00 <h01ger> cek, or put them in penta for them...
16:32:00 <MrBeige> #action cek gets openday talks into penta
16:32:00 <moray> right, stand for 1000, not talk
16:32:00 <marga> h01ger: that "or" was german.
16:33:00 <MrBeige> #topic Next meeting
16:33:00 <MrBeige> #agreed Monday, 22 June, 19 UTC
16:33:00 <h01ger> marga, no entiendo
16:33:00 <moray> yes
16:33:00 <MrBeige> any dissenters ?
16:33:00 <moray> assuming there's Spanish next week
16:33:00 <MrBeige> #topic Any other business (please discuss after meeting if possible)
16:33:00 <h01ger> (german "or")
16:33:00 <h01ger> moray, no, why?
16:34:00 <MrBeige> ok, anything?
16:34:00 <marga> h01ger: your "or?" at the end confused me. In English it would have been "don't you think?" or something like that. Not "or?"
16:34:00 <MrBeige> done?
16:34:00 <GyrosGeier> "is there a laundromat nearby?"
16:34:00 <marga> Yes.
16:34:00 <moray> GyrosGeier: that's not a meeting topic, sorry
16:34:00 <marga> To MrBeige, not to GyrosGeier
16:34:00 <h01ger> marga, ah. right
16:34:00 <MrBeige> GyrosGeier: can you send that to a mailing list
16:34:00 <h01ger> there is one
16:34:00 <GyrosGeier> moray, I thought it may fit under "other business"
16:34:00 <GyrosGeier> okay
16:35:00 <MrBeige> GyrosGeier: someone can rememeber to add to the webpage thatway
16:35:00 <fil> any chance of an answer to my "Should I turn up early to help setup?" question? (would be nice to book flights)
16:35:00 <h01ger> a huge laundry cellar suiatbable for 100something students
16:35:00 <marga> cek, anto: next week we have meeting in Spanish, to finalize numbers for food, accommodation and so on. Can you make it?
16:35:00 * GyrosGeier sends mail still
16:35:00 <h01ger> fil, how early are you thinking about?
16:35:00 <GyrosGeier> n8
16:35:00 <h01ger> gn8 GyrosGeier
16:35:00 <cek> marga, yes we can
16:35:00 <moray> great
16:35:00 <marga> cek: good.
16:35:00 <marga> See you then.
16:35:00 <MrBeige> good
16:35:00 <Noodles> Our first night of accommodation is the 16th, isn't it?
16:35:00 <marga> I have to leave now. Bye!
16:35:00 <MrBeige> Noodles: yes
16:35:00 <moray> Noodles: check the dates page
16:36:00 <MrBeige> marga: bye
16:36:00 <fil> days -- whatesver would help -- I work for myself, so could take time off easily
16:36:00 <cek> me too
16:36:00 <cek> se ya!!
16:36:00 <MrBeige> #topic do we need fil to come early to help?
16:36:00 <Noodles> We have 9 people claiming to arrive on the 15th. Though one of them is Ganneff.
16:36:00 <MrBeige> ok, we need to ansewr this, it's gone on for a while
16:37:00 <MrBeige> we need people on the ground in cáceres to answer it, though
16:37:00 <moray> yes
16:37:00 <h01ger> #endmeeting?
16:37:00 <Ganneff> Noodles: yeah. setup day extra like, always nice to have.
16:37:00 <moray> I am sure there will be stuff to do
16:37:00 <Noodles> Ganneff: /You/ I understand. It's the others I wasn't sure about.
16:37:00 <moray> but it really needs some locals involved
16:37:00 <h01ger> caceres is also a nice city to spend some time in without doing debconf work :)
16:37:00 <MrBeige> fil: we'll have to decide later...
16:37:00 <MrBeige> #endmeeting