20:00:08 #startmeeting 20:00:15 http://whiteboard.debian.net/dc9budgetmeetingagenda_349c9c.wb 20:00:51 #meetingtopic http://whiteboard.debian.net/dc9budgetmeetingagenda_349c9c.wb 20:01:03 so, let's see 20:01:12 #topic our current status 20:01:37 http://rkd.zgib.net/hidden/dc9-budget.html is our spreadsheet 20:01:46 (you all don't have to stop talking...) 20:01:56 :-P 20:02:04 (heh) 20:02:12 I'll talk instead of reading :P 20:02:19 ok, status? 20:02:21 moray: I should add a meetbot command to have it start a meeting with someone else as the chair 20:03:10 #info we have 79k in "non-negotiable" expenses. We have 71k of income pledged, plus 10k more coming from attendee fees 20:03:30 so we have 2k for travel sponsorship now? ;) 20:03:37 \o/ 20:03:40 h01ger: and more unknown costs 20:03:43 it's kind of amazing... 20:03:47 yes, plus unknown costs 20:03:55 which will probably be significant 20:03:56 the budget is a "best case" rather than a budget I think 20:04:10 we may have 14k in FdS sponsorship 20:04:13 (a budget would contain a contingency fund etc. rather than leaving stuff out) 20:04:21 debconf-team: 3 holger committed revision 882 to debconf-team: ping 20:04:21 debconf-team: files changed: U dc9/sponsors-table 20:04:27 #info if the sponsor pays for the FdS residence, then that's 14k more we get, effectively 20:04:28 schultmc: yes, that would certainly help if it happens 20:04:42 moray: yes 20:04:43 * h01ger hands moray a beer ;) you do have a point, but :) 20:04:59 but we are doing better each week 20:05:04 yes 20:05:20 thankfully 20:05:20 h01ger: indeed, looking much better recently 20:05:22 I think everything here is up-to-date whit the latest svn/mailing list activities 20:05:29 h01ger: and I think the 'extra' costs we *can* cut down on 20:05:33 although we're now already past the "deadline" for sponsors 20:05:37 if we just don't have the money to waste on them 20:05:56 moray, videoteam yesterday decided to recycle tapes ;) \o/ 20:06:01 #topic update budget estimates 20:06:02 h01ger: cool 20:06:08 anto came up with 5k more today 20:06:10 anything new here? I guess not really... 20:06:23 h01ger: is videoteam budget estimates decreased ? 20:06:29 MrBeige, no 20:06:32 not yet 20:06:42 h01ger: ok 20:06:50 so I don't think there's much more here, for now 20:06:50 might or might not happen 20:07:07 yeah 20:07:28 #topic update sponsorship estimates 20:07:29 MrBeige: what about the unaccounted-for costs? do we decide they should be kept as zero for now? 20:07:39 moray: let's discuss that in a bit 20:07:41 (sorry, out of agenda order ;) 20:07:44 yeah 20:08:05 sponsorsteam: what do you know ? 20:08:16 the sponsor estimates we have are reasonable accurate, I think 20:08:28 anto seems like a force to not be ignored - so we may get more there 20:08:29 (in a bit: what are unaccounted-for costs? a buffer?) 20:08:29 I'd be surprised if anybody is going to offer more at this point, anyway 20:08:45 Sledge, sun? ibm? 20:08:47 h01ger: everything in the bottom half of the spreadsheet 20:08:48 Sledge: I have no idea what anto's telling local sponsors, it must be good though ;) 20:08:56 moray: yup :-) 20:09:01 h01ger: heard nothing from ibm 20:09:06 Sledge: do you have the spreadsheet open ? (not the thml one) 20:09:21 pestered Sun today, the 5K EUR for Sun might be over-optimistic 20:09:25 MrBeige: yes 20:09:42 Sledge: under "POSSIBLE" on the Incoming sheet, what are tho thoughts on those ? 20:09:49 or is what what you've been saying ? 20:10:17 sec 20:10:44 those, yes 20:10:51 not sure for Intel at this point 20:10:52 Sledge: so most of those "possible" ones are probably no now ? I guess the main ones are sun and intel 20:10:53 Sledge, nods. thx 20:11:08 hands.com and Sirius should be definite 20:11:17 we just haven't got to invoice yet as we're still talking 20:11:19 the sirius amount should be moved up ? 20:11:23 numbers should be ok 20:11:37 they're struggling for cash, or so they say 20:11:40 should get back to me tomorrow 20:11:41 #action MrBeige moves the two sponsers mentioned above to "definite" 20:11:48 Sledge: about which one ? 20:11:52 h01ger: are you dealing with maemo? 20:12:05 MrBeige: gah, Sirius :-) 20:12:25 MrBeige: not sirius --^ 20:12:39 Sledge, yes, just pinged 20:12:44 h01ger: cool 20:12:46 * MrBeige thinks we need organisation here 20:12:51 hands: definite 20:12:53 sirius: 20:12:57 Ganneff: have you spoken to anybody at Bytemark? 20:13:03 is uncertain 20:13:11 correct 20:13:11 Sledge: (order?) 20:13:13 debconf-data: 3 holger committed revision 907 to debconf-data: add amino 20:13:13 debconf-data: files changed: U dc9/website/page.tt 20:13:14 debconf-data: A media.debconf.org/dc9/sponsorlogos/bronze/amino.png 20:13:19 sun 20:13:22 there were 3 or 4 sponsors listed with Ganneff as contact, which we have contacted afaik 20:13:24 h01ger: ta 20:13:27 news on sun ? 20:13:35 Sledge, i hope its good :) 20:13:36 MrBeige: heard nothing in a month 20:13:41 Sledge: so probably no ? 20:13:46 will sponsor, but not sure of amount 20:14:03 Sledge: ah, ok. msg me a reasonable amonut 20:14:23 mameo: 20:14:26 mameo status ? 20:14:28 last offer was "low-thousands of dollars" 20:14:35 I've been pushing Sun to try to get us 5K EUR 20:14:38 to make silver 20:14:46 cool 20:15:16 mameo ? 20:15:31 MrBeige, see backlog :-D IOW: just pinged again 20:15:51 h01ger: sorry, it was too disorganized... 20:15:54 intel status ? 20:16:18 I got no reply from my side. But I saw that faw had also tried, so I didn't insist. Should I? 20:16:21 * h01ger is a bit disappointed btw to have not gotten any cheers or any feedback for picking up 30 APs as a sponsored gift to debconf 20:16:32 h01ger: \o/ 20:16:35 are they running debian? 20:16:36 * Sledge kisses h01ger 20:16:41 that enough? :-P 20:16:51 marga: yes please if you can 20:16:56 i suggest to keep 10 and to give 20 away, in a lottery where people get a draw for each RC bug they've fixed during debcamp :) 20:16:59 Sledge: ok, will send mail today 20:16:59 Sledge, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 20:17:02 * h01ger blushes 20:17:10 :) 20:17:14 h01ger: awesome, I think it's great 20:17:22 h01ger: ok, sounds sensible to keep some yes 20:17:26 h01ger: heh 20:17:29 ok 20:17:34 * Hydroxide returns from getting called away at work and starts cartching up 20:17:36 bytemark status ? 20:18:05 I guess not more than the amount listed 20:18:05 bytemark sponsors hosting iirc - have they given cash in the past? 20:18:11 MrBeige: no idea, they're Ganneff's 20:18:15 ok 20:18:23 yes, bytemark gave us GBP 1K for DC7 at least 20:18:27 and maybe for DC8 too? 20:18:30 * Sledge looks 20:18:36 #info So it seems we won't get more than 5k€ more. 20:18:51 #info also, thanks to h01ger for getting APs for us! 20:18:51 yes, they did 20:19:15 bytemark gave cash in the past. not done via me last year 20:19:24 #topic what do we trim from the budget? 20:19:26 Ganneff: ah, ok 20:19:40 Ganneff: would you like to talk to them again, or shall I? 20:19:46 Sledge: feel free to. 20:19:51 ok, will do 20:19:54 Sledge: i think it was you last year 20:19:54 ok 20:20:18 Sledge, Ganneff: discuss after meeting ? 20:20:23 which others are "mine"? 20:20:33 so, hm, I wonder if this is the best order... 20:20:39 who was in contact with zeit.de last year? 20:20:48 atille, iirc 20:20:55 #topic sponsors discussion 20:20:56 ic. me mails ihm 20:20:59 ic. me mails him 20:21:08 (let me know once you have discussed this, it is important) 20:21:24 anyone else you think is from me? 20:21:35 * Hydroxide caught up 20:21:35 Ganneff: open source press, gandi, man-da.de, Thomas-Krenn 20:21:36 Ganneff: open source press, Gandi, TK? 20:21:49 manda not money, only bandwidth 20:21:54 sure 20:21:58 tk i should mail about giving us machines again 20:22:09 osp cant remember what they did last year. 20:22:19 gandi i can try mailing tomorrow unless someone else steps up. 20:22:20 Ganneff, machines would be great! 20:22:49 h01ger: yes. and its in .eu again, so should work. 20:23:02 cool 20:23:13 ok 20:23:16 if we also could get two decent laptops from somewhere... 20:23:19 (i assume that, but they are very debian friendly) 20:23:30 and never said no, just last year didnt want to have the customs trouble. 20:23:34 or desktops with TFTs but they take more space 20:23:51 (for video mixing) 20:24:01 can the rest of thes sponsors issues be discussed after the meeting ? 20:24:06 im done :) 20:24:10 and out again. 20:24:15 Ganneff: ok, bye 20:24:26 (you did hilight me after all :) ) 20:24:30 #action a lot more work in contacting sponsors can still be done, following up loose ends 20:24:41 #topic what can we trim from the budget 20:25:02 #info mainly speaking of day trip or conference dinner costs here 20:25:09 so I'm sort of an outsider 20:25:25 what do you pros think about day trip or dinner costs ? 20:25:30 for dc7, day trip attendees paid their own way 20:25:38 yup, and that worked ok 20:25:41 yes 20:25:44 there's been talk of a local sponsor sponsoring the day trip or conf dinner 20:25:46 depends on what is suggested, of course 20:25:53 yeah 20:26:00 for the day trip, I think leaving people to pay is best at this stage 20:26:05 if we get money we can easily change that 20:26:39 for a dinner -- well, again, it's not really vital, and doing it properly is likely to cost a lot 20:26:54 what about the proposal of: (let people pay for day trip themselves) and (budget nothing for the conference dinner, use extra sponsorship we get for that to be decided later. If we want and need be, we can transfer debian money) 20:27:25 so for dinner, leave it unplanned and unbudgeted, and see what we have extras for later 20:27:36 anto is organising something about a sponsored day trip but he doesnt want to tell until its final 20:27:40 or such 20:27:48 h01ger: ok 20:28:10 h01ger: that is still consistent with "don't budget anything for it now" --- anto making amazing things for us will just wow us later 20:28:15 and me agrees what MrBeige said about dinner last 20:28:30 sounds good, yes 20:28:42 any other opinions before I enter it as agreed ? 20:29:10 #agreed Budget nothing for day trip - either attendees pay, or it gets sponsored 20:29:11 Sledge: dc10 is likely to want startup funds relatively soon, can we get another loan/transfer from Debian for that, or do we need to try to cut that out of dc9 money? 20:29:18 i think we should definitly have that dinner... so "unplanned" is maybe too much, "still unplanned" might be better 20:29:46 h01ger: can we say "unbudgeted for, will use last-minute money for it" ? 20:29:50 yup 20:29:53 moray: I don't want to commit money to 2 confs at once 20:30:03 .oO( moray moved to NYC ;) 20:30:04 straight away after DC9 we can talk about it 20:30:05 Sledge: DC10 will probably not have its first expense until October 20:30:09 Sledge: so that's fine 20:30:11 Hydroxide: ok, that's cool 20:30:26 #agreed Dinner - unbudgeted for, will use last-minute money for it. We'll try to do it but won't break the budget worrying about it now 20:30:38 ok, is there anything else we can trim down? 20:30:47 .oO( or has become localteam already, whatever, just silly joking - and the dc10 preparation is definitly great ) 20:30:55 Sledge: well, I can see your argument, if I was dc10 I'd want a stronger idea of where the money would come from though :) 20:31:24 moray, Sledge: off-topic for this meeting. I can answer moray's point after the meeting ends 20:31:46 #topic what extra costs will we have to pay, which are currently "below the line" on the html budget 20:32:12 stationary would be mainly the proceedings etc. 20:32:25 is 1300€ still reasonable for that ? 20:32:28 which again we don't *need* to print as big things, though we may have promised the sponsors that more or less 20:32:54 yeah 20:32:57 stationery sounds expensive there 20:33:08 but then again we ended up printing lots of things at DC7 20:33:15 (yes, it should be 'stationery', the budget is wrong) 20:33:20 name badges, etc 20:33:23 some banners, etc would be important, plus printed proceedings would be good, too 20:33:37 yes 20:33:48 printed proceedings are a minor thing for many attendees 20:33:49 Sledge: I think that's the amount that ended up spent at dc7, I doubt it needs to be so high though 20:33:50 would 1000€ budgetd be reasonable ? 20:34:00 or lower ? 20:34:00 Sledge: if you remember there were emergency staples trips etc. 20:34:00 but some people may want them to show to people when they get home 20:34:07 moray: oh yes :-) 20:34:16 MrBeige: call it EUR 1k, yes 20:34:27 #info 1000€ for "stationary" 20:34:33 don't tell the locals we budgetted for it 20:34:33 ery :P 20:34:44 maybe they'll steal stuff from their employers instead :) 20:34:48 insurance, it sounds like we won't need much 20:34:51 moray: @@@@@ 20:34:53 moray: great idea 20:34:56 (seeing as they're sponsors anyway) 20:35:08 moray: haha I can run DC10 off of grant money free supplies 20:35:09 anyway 20:35:16 :) 20:35:28 let's assume nothing for insurance now... that's localteam which will need to tell us 20:35:34 or is there any non-local insurance ? 20:35:44 it was all local on-site for us 20:35:58 in the UK we found it to be necessary 20:36:03 #agreed no insurance budgeted for now 20:36:05 dunno about .es 20:36:11 insurance will probably be advisable for DC10, but I don't know about .es either 20:36:22 we *really* need to get local advice on that 20:36:24 Sledge: I assume since it's owned by the Junta, they will take care of it... 20:36:30 MrBeige: don't assume :) 20:36:52 Sledge: what type of insurance was it? for the conf/DC7LTD itself, building use, ... 20:36:56 MrBeige: I doubt it if it's the DebConf organisers' accident injuring people, for example 20:37:09 Hydroxide: I also don't want to debate without having any way to decide 20:37:16 moray: ah, *that* is useful information 20:37:19 MrBeige: accident / liability insurance, basically 20:37:23 yeah 20:37:31 MrBeige: no, I don't have useful information either, I just agree we shouldn't 'assume not' 20:37:37 we didn't want to get sued 20:37:48 #action MrBeige emails to find out about insurance needs 20:37:52 *no* idea what the state of that might be in .es, nor the potential cost 20:37:54 I think other years *have* ignored it though 20:38:04 next up: computer expenses 20:38:15 maybe depends on how many ambulance chasers... :-) 20:38:25 WTF is computer expenses? 20:38:30 oh, misc cable ets? 20:38:31 Sledge: right, the people who broke bones at dc7 didn't sue us fortunately... 20:38:31 etc? 20:38:41 I guess cables etc. 20:38:55 sounds like a lot 20:39:03 So I guess it highly depends on how much is available for us... 20:39:10 yeah 20:39:20 we need a contingency in the budget for stuff 20:39:28 but no idea of what it'll need 20:39:28 again this is stuff Debian should be able to 'borrow' off people 20:39:38 cat5, duct tape, etc 20:39:40 sure 20:39:46 is 500€ reasonable to have for now (1000€ "bad case" scenerio) ? 20:40:08 leave it at 1k, I think 20:40:20 I'd rather budget and have spare 20:40:23 #info computer expenses: 1000€ for contingencies 20:40:25 yep 20:40:29 next: postage/carriage 20:41:00 I don't remember what that all was -- some courier costs for visa letters etc., maybe also returning borrowed equipment? 20:41:09 shipping sponsor bags ? 20:41:17 that too 20:41:20 books to oreilly, sponsor bags, etc 20:41:27 should be much cheaper this year 20:41:35 estimate? 20:41:36 call it 500 max 20:41:48 #info postage/carriage: 500€ max budgeted 20:41:51 again, any spare just carries forward 20:41:53 next: import duty 20:42:06 for Ts, basically 20:42:14 so probably similar again this time? 20:42:20 yeah, leave it as-is 20:42:24 (seeing as we're supposed to be in a customs union) 20:42:35 #info import duty stays the same: 230€ 20:42:38 advertising 20:42:59 MrBeige: (well, I'd round up due to 2 years' inflation and random variation) 20:43:14 anto got us some local advertising through a sponsor 20:43:17 I don't remember what advertising was, is that the banner? 20:43:40 no, this was via madduck for press stuff 20:43:44 moray: (will round up in final tabulation) 20:44:17 Gaceta Tecnologica will send us 500 newspapers and will write an article about debconf 20:44:30 Sledge: what did he spend money on? mobile phone calls? (not complaining, just wondering what the headings decode to) 20:44:39 and we will also get some publicity via fon, if i think about that in 2 or 3 weeks ;) 20:44:47 (reminders welcome ;) 20:44:53 moray: it was a one-off cost for something like newswire IIRC 20:45:01 hm 20:45:07 Sledge: ahh, could be that yes 20:45:10 don't remember the exact people 20:45:11 sec 20:45:16 shall we just say 100€ and calli t good? or zero ? 20:45:28 linux magazine also offered us an article pre-debconf, if we write it 20:45:39 UKPRwire 20:45:49 MrBeige: zero, tbh 20:45:52 h01ger: yup, true 20:45:54 MrBeige: I think in general we don't spend money on advertising, even if maybe we *should* for the Open Day 20:46:10 #info we're saying zero for advertising for now 20:46:19 I wouldn't be opposed to spending money for a press release, though we can probably get it sponsored at least for dc10 20:46:20 next: equipment hire and network equipment 20:46:36 (nyc == advertising capital of the world :P) 20:46:37 let's talk to linux magazine sooner rather then later, and get the ad done 20:46:46 Sledge: who should i action for it ? 20:46:58 h01ger: you happy to talk to them? 20:47:02 I guess we can whiteboard the article 20:47:32 if needs be, I'll do it, but I'm swamped as always 20:47:38 :-( 20:47:46 * Hydroxide is not the right choice :P 20:47:57 #action Sledge follows up and assigns someone to work on the article for Linux Magazine (but not necessarily do it himself) 20:48:07 equipment hire and network equipment: 20:48:07 MrBeige: ack 20:48:26 equipment hire was for lights, projector, audio etc 20:48:33 no idea where we are on that this time 20:48:37 Sledge, talk is cheap. i'm not happy to write the article 20:48:38 so depends on the Junta 20:49:09 how about 2000€ for now, can reduce later ? 20:49:14 (for both of those) 20:49:18 yeah, will do 20:49:26 #save 20:50:01 oh, "will do" was for me 20:50:06 yes 20:50:27 2k eur should cover those, as a total guess :-) 20:50:37 #info equipment for A/V, etc: 2000€, but hopefulyl we can borrow more and it's lower 20:51:00 ok, what other expenses should we plan on ? 20:51:05 (exclude travel costs so far) 20:51:38 #topic 3 minute break while MrBeige works up the summary again 20:51:46 #save 20:53:39 MrBeige: well, it seems like 'tables' might expand still 20:53:59 ah yes 20:54:02 I don't know if food etc. are firm yet 20:54:05 there is the big local unknowns 20:54:36 I'm open to suggestions about what to do about that 20:55:41 do we have any idea on when more concrete numbers might be available? 20:55:45 I'm not sure there's much useful to do beyond realise they might expand still 20:56:16 yeah 20:56:19 Sledge: not really, MrBeige has been prodding (and it's been translated to the localteam list as well), but we know anto/cek don't have enough time 20:56:22 also air conditioners... 20:56:25 ah yes 20:57:26 http://rkd.zgib.net/hidden/dc9-budget.html updated 20:57:44 #info the budget now says 85000€ expenses 20:58:24 €500 sounds quite low to rent chairs and tables for everyone, given that that was the previous estimate for one night-time hacklab 20:58:35 but I have no idea what is already available there etc. 20:58:40 quite 20:58:53 so income - expenses = 13k deficit 20:59:17 moray: yes, it sounds low to me too... maybe add 1000 to it? (I won't go and update it right now) 20:59:42 no idea, tbh 20:59:53 it's small, we can think about it later 20:59:58 that's only ~4 EUR to 5 EUR pp 21:00:03 #action MrBeige email localteam about costs of tables/security 21:00:10 oh, wait... I think I already did that (heh) 21:00:20 * schultmc knows what tables and chairs cost here but that doesn't mean anything about the costs in .es 21:00:33 #topic travel costs 21:00:34 schultmc: they cost in euros there. 21:00:40 Hydroxide: :P 21:00:57 having at *least* 10k€ for travel costs seems reasonable, no ? 21:01:32 DC7 was 13.3k 21:01:33 MrBeige: you're giving us the money? great! ;) 21:01:45 moray: heh 21:01:54 moray: debian could give it to us 21:02:22 we're currently being asked for ~45k EUR for travel sponsorship 21:02:24 moray: though, mainly being a "how much is worth it" 21:02:33 dc8 was 126k ARS (~24k EUR) 21:02:38 well, in that scenario I'd rather just label it as "Debian paying to take people to DebConf" rather than "giving DebConf money" 21:02:50 dc8 was also in a harder to access location and in a better economy 21:02:56 yeah 21:03:20 my current plan is for Debian to pay ~USD 20k towards sponsorship here 21:03:20 yes 21:03:38 though I guess for dc9 people will have forgotten to add up the train/bus costs when they asked -- not our problem, but their 'needed' amounts may end up truer than usual 21:03:49 we're explicitly *not* going to cover everything that was asked for 21:03:53 Sledge: on top of making up whatever deficits are run otherwise ? 21:04:06 Sledge: meaning, (extra conf costs) + 20kUSD travel ? 21:04:09 as there are a number of people with no justification for travel imnsho 21:04:15 20000 USD is a bit over 14000 EUR 21:04:22 MrBeige: I was initially thinking 20k USD period 21:04:38 Sledge: ah, that is also reasonable. (we jsut need to specify which it is) 21:04:45 bbut atm it looks like that will be eaten in the deficit already :-( 21:05:13 * Sledge looks at numbers again 21:05:18 #info oops, I needed to say: deficit right now is 13k€ 21:05:54