20:00:08 <MrBeige> #startmeeting
20:00:15 <MrBeige> http://whiteboard.debian.net/dc9budgetmeetingagenda_349c9c.wb
20:00:51 <MrBeige> #meetingtopic http://whiteboard.debian.net/dc9budgetmeetingagenda_349c9c.wb
20:01:03 <MrBeige> so, let's see
20:01:12 <MrBeige> #topic our current status
20:01:37 <MrBeige> http://rkd.zgib.net/hidden/dc9-budget.html is our spreadsheet
20:01:46 <MrBeige> (you all don't have to stop talking...)
20:01:56 <Sledge> :-P
20:02:04 <MrBeige> (heh)
20:02:12 <schultmc> I'll talk instead of reading :P
20:02:19 <Sledge> ok, status?
20:02:21 <MrBeige> moray: I should add a meetbot command to have it start a meeting with someone else as the chair
20:03:10 <MrBeige> #info we have 79k in "non-negotiable" expenses.  We have 71k of income pledged, plus 10k more coming from attendee fees
20:03:30 <h01ger> so we have 2k for travel sponsorship now? ;)
20:03:37 <Sledge> \o/
20:03:40 <moray> h01ger: and more unknown costs
20:03:43 <MrBeige> it's kind of amazing...
20:03:47 <MrBeige> yes, plus unknown costs
20:03:55 <MrBeige> which will probably be significant
20:03:56 <moray> the budget is a "best case" rather than a budget I think
20:04:10 <schultmc> we may have 14k in FdS sponsorship
20:04:13 <moray> (a budget would contain a contingency fund etc. rather than leaving stuff out)
20:04:21 <FBI> debconf-team: 3 holger committed revision 882 to debconf-team: ping
20:04:21 <FBI> debconf-team: files changed: U   dc9/sponsors-table
20:04:27 <MrBeige> #info if the sponsor pays for the FdS residence, then that's 14k more we get, effectively
20:04:28 <moray> schultmc: yes, that would certainly help if it happens
20:04:42 <MrBeige> moray: yes
20:04:43 * h01ger hands moray a beer ;) you do have a point, but :)
20:04:59 <h01ger> but we are doing better each week
20:05:04 <MrBeige> yes
20:05:20 <Sledge> thankfully
20:05:20 <moray> h01ger: indeed, looking much better recently
20:05:22 <MrBeige> I think everything here is up-to-date whit the latest svn/mailing list activities
20:05:29 <moray> h01ger: and I think the 'extra' costs we *can* cut down on
20:05:33 <Sledge> although we're now already past the "deadline" for sponsors
20:05:37 <moray> if we just don't have the money to waste on them
20:05:56 <h01ger> moray, videoteam yesterday decided to recycle tapes ;) \o/
20:06:01 <MrBeige> #topic update budget estimates
20:06:02 <Sledge> h01ger: cool
20:06:08 <h01ger> anto came up with 5k more today
20:06:10 <MrBeige> anything new here?  I guess not really...
20:06:23 <MrBeige> h01ger: is videoteam budget estimates decreased ?
20:06:29 <h01ger> MrBeige, no
20:06:32 <h01ger> not yet
20:06:42 <MrBeige> h01ger: ok
20:06:50 <MrBeige> so I don't think there's much more here, for now
20:06:50 <h01ger> might or might not happen
20:07:07 <MrBeige> yeah
20:07:28 <MrBeige> #topic update sponsorship estimates
20:07:29 <moray> MrBeige: what about the unaccounted-for costs?  do we decide they should be kept as zero for now?
20:07:39 <MrBeige> moray: let's discuss that in a bit
20:07:41 <moray> (sorry, out of agenda order ;)
20:07:44 <moray> yeah
20:08:05 <MrBeige> sponsorsteam: what do you know ?
20:08:16 <Sledge> the sponsor estimates we have are reasonable accurate, I think
20:08:28 <MrBeige> anto seems like a force to not be ignored - so we may get more there
20:08:29 <h01ger> (in a bit: what are unaccounted-for costs? a buffer?)
20:08:29 <Sledge> I'd be surprised if anybody is going to offer more at this point, anyway
20:08:45 <h01ger> Sledge, sun? ibm?
20:08:47 <MrBeige> h01ger: everything in the bottom half of the spreadsheet
20:08:48 <moray> Sledge: I have no idea what anto's telling local sponsors, it must be good though ;)
20:08:56 <Sledge> moray: yup :-)
20:09:01 <Sledge> h01ger: heard nothing from ibm
20:09:06 <MrBeige> Sledge: do you have the spreadsheet open ?  (not the thml one)
20:09:21 <Sledge> pestered Sun today, the 5K EUR for Sun might be over-optimistic
20:09:25 <Sledge> MrBeige: yes
20:09:42 <MrBeige> Sledge: under "POSSIBLE" on the Incoming sheet, what are tho thoughts on those ?
20:09:49 <MrBeige> or is what what you've been saying ?
20:10:17 <Sledge> sec
20:10:44 <Sledge> those, yes
20:10:51 <Sledge> not sure for Intel at this point
20:10:52 <MrBeige> Sledge: so most of those "possible" ones are probably no now ?  I guess the main ones are sun and intel
20:10:53 <h01ger> Sledge, nods. thx
20:11:08 <Sledge> hands.com and Sirius should be definite
20:11:17 <Sledge> we just haven't got to invoice yet as we're still talking
20:11:19 <MrBeige> the sirius amount should be moved up ?
20:11:23 <Sledge> numbers should be ok
20:11:37 <Sledge> they're struggling for cash, or so they say
20:11:40 <Sledge> should get back to me tomorrow
20:11:41 <MrBeige> #action MrBeige moves the two sponsers mentioned above to "definite"
20:11:48 <MrBeige> Sledge: about which one ?
20:11:52 <Sledge> h01ger: are you dealing with maemo?
20:12:05 <Sledge> MrBeige: gah, Sirius :-)
20:12:25 <MrBeige> MrBeige: not sirius  --^
20:12:39 <h01ger> Sledge, yes, just pinged
20:12:44 <Sledge> h01ger: cool
20:12:46 * MrBeige thinks we need organisation here
20:12:51 <MrBeige> hands: definite
20:12:53 <MrBeige> sirius:
20:12:57 <Sledge> Ganneff: have you spoken to anybody at Bytemark?
20:13:03 <MrBeige> is uncertain
20:13:11 <Sledge> correct
20:13:11 <MrBeige> Sledge: (order?)
20:13:13 <FBI> debconf-data: 3 holger committed revision 907 to debconf-data: add amino
20:13:13 <FBI> debconf-data: files changed: U   dc9/website/page.tt
20:13:14 <FBI> debconf-data: A   media.debconf.org/dc9/sponsorlogos/bronze/amino.png
20:13:19 <MrBeige> sun
20:13:22 <h01ger> there were 3 or 4 sponsors listed with Ganneff as contact, which we have contacted afaik
20:13:24 <Sledge> h01ger: ta
20:13:27 <MrBeige> news on sun ?
20:13:35 <h01ger> Sledge, i hope its good :)
20:13:36 <Sledge> MrBeige: heard nothing in a month
20:13:41 <MrBeige> Sledge: so probably no ?
20:13:46 <Sledge> will sponsor, but not sure of amount
20:14:03 <MrBeige> Sledge: ah, ok.  msg me a reasonable amonut
20:14:23 <MrBeige> mameo:
20:14:26 <MrBeige> mameo status ?
20:14:28 <Sledge> last offer was "low-thousands of dollars"
20:14:35 <Sledge> I've been pushing Sun to try to get us 5K EUR
20:14:38 <Sledge> to make silver
20:14:46 <MrBeige> cool
20:15:16 <MrBeige> mameo ?
20:15:31 <h01ger> MrBeige, see backlog :-D IOW: just pinged again
20:15:51 <MrBeige> h01ger: sorry, it was too disorganized...
20:15:54 <MrBeige> intel status ?
20:16:18 <marga> I got no reply from my side. But I saw that faw had also tried, so I didn't insist. Should I?
20:16:21 * h01ger is a bit disappointed btw to have not gotten any cheers or any feedback for picking up 30 APs as a sponsored gift to debconf
20:16:32 <Sledge> h01ger: \o/
20:16:35 <Clint> are they running debian?
20:16:36 * Sledge kisses h01ger
20:16:41 <Sledge> that enough? :-P
20:16:51 <Sledge> marga: yes please if you can
20:16:56 <h01ger> i suggest to keep 10 and to give 20 away, in a lottery where people get a draw for each RC bug they've fixed during debcamp :)
20:16:59 <marga> Sledge: ok, will send mail today
20:16:59 <h01ger> Sledge, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
20:17:02 * h01ger blushes
20:17:10 <h01ger> :)
20:17:14 <marga> h01ger: awesome, I think it's great
20:17:22 <Sledge> h01ger: ok, sounds sensible to keep some yes
20:17:26 <MrBeige> h01ger: heh
20:17:29 <MrBeige> ok
20:17:34 * Hydroxide returns from getting called away at work and starts cartching up
20:17:36 <MrBeige> bytemark status ?
20:18:05 <MrBeige> I guess not more than the amount listed
20:18:05 <schultmc> bytemark sponsors hosting iirc - have they given cash in the past?
20:18:11 <Sledge> MrBeige: no idea, they're Ganneff's
20:18:15 <MrBeige> ok
20:18:23 <Sledge> yes, bytemark gave us GBP 1K for DC7 at least
20:18:27 <Sledge> and maybe for DC8 too?
20:18:30 * Sledge looks
20:18:36 <MrBeige> #info So it seems we won't get more than 5k€ more.
20:18:51 <MrBeige> #info also, thanks to h01ger for getting APs for us!
20:18:51 <Sledge> yes, they did
20:19:15 <Ganneff> bytemark gave cash in the past. not done via me last year
20:19:24 <MrBeige> #topic what do we trim from the budget?
20:19:26 <Sledge> Ganneff: ah, ok
20:19:40 <Sledge> Ganneff: would you like to talk to them again, or shall I?
20:19:46 <Ganneff> Sledge: feel free to.
20:19:51 <Sledge> ok, will do
20:19:54 <Ganneff> Sledge: i think it was you last year
20:19:54 <MrBeige> ok
20:20:18 <MrBeige> Sledge, Ganneff: discuss after meeting ?
20:20:23 <Ganneff> which others are "mine"?
20:20:33 <MrBeige> so, hm, I wonder if this is the best order...
20:20:39 <h01ger> who was in contact with zeit.de last year?
20:20:48 <Ganneff> atille, iirc
20:20:55 <MrBeige> #topic sponsors discussion
20:20:56 <h01ger> ic. me mails ihm
20:20:59 <h01ger> ic. me mails him
20:21:08 <MrBeige> (let me know once you have discussed this, it is important)
20:21:24 <Ganneff> anyone else you think is from me?
20:21:35 * Hydroxide caught up
20:21:35 <schultmc> Ganneff: open source press, gandi, man-da.de, Thomas-Krenn
20:21:36 <Sledge> Ganneff: open source press, Gandi, TK?
20:21:49 <Ganneff> manda not money, only bandwidth
20:21:54 <Sledge> sure
20:21:58 <Ganneff> tk i should mail about giving us machines again
20:22:09 <Ganneff> osp cant remember what they did last year.
20:22:19 <Ganneff> gandi i can try mailing tomorrow unless someone else steps up.
20:22:20 <h01ger> Ganneff, machines would be great!
20:22:49 <Ganneff> h01ger: yes. and its in .eu again, so should work.
20:23:02 <Sledge> cool
20:23:13 <MrBeige> ok
20:23:16 <h01ger> if we also could get two decent laptops from somewhere...
20:23:19 <Ganneff> (i assume that, but they are very debian friendly)
20:23:30 <Ganneff> and never said no, just last year didnt want to have the customs trouble.
20:23:34 <h01ger> or desktops with TFTs but they take more space
20:23:51 <h01ger> (for video mixing)
20:24:01 <MrBeige> can the rest of thes sponsors issues be discussed after the meeting ?
20:24:06 <Ganneff> im done :)
20:24:10 <Ganneff> and out again.
20:24:15 <MrBeige> Ganneff: ok, bye
20:24:26 <Ganneff> (you did hilight me after all :) )
20:24:30 <MrBeige> #action a lot more work in contacting sponsors can still be done, following up loose ends
20:24:41 <MrBeige> #topic what can we trim from the budget
20:25:02 <MrBeige> #info mainly speaking of day trip or conference dinner costs here
20:25:09 <MrBeige> so I'm sort of an outsider
20:25:25 <MrBeige> what do you pros think about day trip or dinner costs ?
20:25:30 <schultmc> for dc7, day trip attendees paid their own way
20:25:38 <Sledge> yup, and that worked ok
20:25:41 <MrBeige> yes
20:25:44 <schultmc> there's been talk of a local sponsor sponsoring the day trip or conf dinner
20:25:46 <Sledge> depends on what is suggested, of course
20:25:53 <MrBeige> yeah
20:26:00 <moray> for the day trip, I think leaving people to pay is best at this stage
20:26:05 <moray> if we get money we can easily change that
20:26:39 <moray> for a dinner -- well, again, it's not really vital, and doing it properly is likely to cost a lot
20:26:54 <MrBeige> what about the proposal of:  (let people pay for day trip themselves) and (budget nothing for the conference dinner, use extra sponsorship we get for that to be decided later.  If we want and need be, we can transfer debian money)
20:27:25 <MrBeige> so for dinner, leave it unplanned and unbudgeted, and see what we have extras for later
20:27:36 <h01ger> anto is organising something about a sponsored day trip but he doesnt want to tell until its final
20:27:40 <h01ger> or such
20:27:48 <MrBeige> h01ger: ok
20:28:10 <MrBeige> h01ger: that is still consistent with "don't budget anything for it now" --- anto making amazing things for us will just wow us later
20:28:15 <h01ger> and me agrees what MrBeige said about dinner last
20:28:30 <Hydroxide> sounds good, yes
20:28:42 <MrBeige> any other opinions before I enter it as agreed ?
20:29:10 <MrBeige> #agreed Budget nothing for day trip - either attendees pay, or it gets sponsored
20:29:11 <moray> Sledge: dc10 is likely to want startup funds relatively soon, can we get another loan/transfer from Debian for that, or do we need to try to cut that out of dc9 money?
20:29:18 <h01ger> i think we should definitly have that dinner... so "unplanned" is maybe too much, "still unplanned" might be better
20:29:46 <MrBeige> h01ger: can we say "unbudgeted for, will use last-minute money for it"  ?
20:29:50 <h01ger> yup
20:29:53 <Sledge> moray: I don't want to commit money to 2 confs at once
20:30:03 <h01ger> .oO( moray moved to NYC ;)
20:30:04 <Sledge> straight away after DC9 we can talk about it
20:30:05 <Hydroxide> Sledge: DC10 will probably not have its first expense until October
20:30:09 <Hydroxide> Sledge: so that's fine
20:30:11 <Sledge> Hydroxide: ok, that's cool
20:30:26 <MrBeige> #agreed Dinner - unbudgeted for, will use last-minute money for it.  We'll try to do it but won't break the budget worrying about it now
20:30:38 <MrBeige> ok, is there anything else we can trim down?
20:30:47 <h01ger> .oO( or has become localteam already, whatever, just silly joking - and the dc10 preparation is definitly great )
20:30:55 <moray> Sledge: well, I can see your argument, if I was dc10 I'd want a stronger idea of where the money would come from though :)
20:31:24 <Hydroxide> moray, Sledge: off-topic for this meeting. I can answer moray's point after the meeting ends
20:31:46 <MrBeige> #topic what extra costs will we have to pay, which are currently "below the line" on the html budget
20:32:12 <moray> stationary would be mainly the proceedings etc.
20:32:25 <MrBeige> is 1300€ still reasonable for that ?
20:32:28 <moray> which again we don't *need* to print as big things, though we may have promised the sponsors that more or less
20:32:54 <MrBeige> yeah
20:32:57 <Sledge> stationery sounds expensive there
20:33:08 <Sledge> but then again we ended up printing lots of things at DC7
20:33:15 <moray> (yes, it should be 'stationery', the budget is wrong)
20:33:20 <Sledge> name badges, etc
20:33:23 <MrBeige> some banners, etc would be important, plus printed proceedings would be good, too
20:33:37 <Sledge> yes
20:33:48 <Sledge> printed proceedings are a minor thing for many attendees
20:33:49 <moray> Sledge: I think that's the amount that ended up spent at dc7, I doubt it needs to be so high though
20:33:50 <MrBeige> would 1000€ budgetd be reasonable ?
20:34:00 <MrBeige> or lower ?
20:34:00 <moray> Sledge: if you remember there were emergency staples trips etc.
20:34:00 <Sledge> but some people may want them to show to people when they get home
20:34:07 <Sledge> moray: oh yes :-)
20:34:16 <Sledge> MrBeige: call it EUR 1k, yes
20:34:27 <MrBeige> #info 1000€ for "stationary"
20:34:33 <moray> don't tell the locals we budgetted for it
20:34:33 <schultmc> ery :P
20:34:44 <moray> maybe they'll steal stuff from their employers instead :)
20:34:48 <MrBeige> insurance, it sounds like we won't need much
20:34:51 <MrBeige> moray: @@@@@
20:34:53 <MrBeige> moray: great idea
20:34:56 <moray> (seeing as they're sponsors anyway)
20:35:08 <MrBeige> moray: haha I can run DC10 off of grant money free supplies
20:35:09 <MrBeige> anyway
20:35:16 <Hydroxide> :)
20:35:28 <MrBeige> let's assume nothing for insurance now... that's localteam which will need to tell us
20:35:34 <MrBeige> or is there any non-local insurance ?
20:35:44 <Sledge> it was all local on-site for us
20:35:58 <Sledge> in the UK we found it to be necessary
20:36:03 <MrBeige> #agreed no insurance budgeted for now
20:36:05 <Sledge> dunno about .es
20:36:11 <Hydroxide> insurance will probably be advisable for DC10, but I don't know about .es either
20:36:22 <Sledge> we *really* need to get local advice on that
20:36:24 <MrBeige> Sledge: I assume since it's owned by the Junta, they will take care of it...
20:36:30 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: don't assume :)
20:36:52 <MrBeige> Sledge: what type of insurance was it?  for the conf/DC7LTD itself, building use, ...
20:36:56 <moray> MrBeige: I doubt it if it's the DebConf organisers' accident injuring people, for example
20:37:09 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: I also don't want to debate without having any way to decide
20:37:16 <MrBeige> moray: ah, *that* is useful information
20:37:19 <Sledge> MrBeige: accident / liability insurance, basically
20:37:23 <MrBeige> yeah
20:37:31 <moray> MrBeige: no, I don't have useful information either, I just agree we shouldn't 'assume not'
20:37:37 <Sledge> we didn't want to get sued
20:37:48 <MrBeige> #action MrBeige emails to find out about insurance needs
20:37:52 <Sledge> *no* idea what the state of that might be in .es, nor the potential cost
20:37:54 <moray> I think other years *have* ignored it though
20:38:04 <MrBeige> next up: computer expenses
20:38:15 <Sledge> maybe depends on how many ambulance chasers... :-)
20:38:25 <Sledge> WTF is computer expenses?
20:38:30 <Sledge> oh, misc cable ets?
20:38:31 <moray> Sledge: right, the people who broke bones at dc7 didn't sue us fortunately...
20:38:31 <Sledge> etc?
20:38:41 <moray> I guess cables etc.
20:38:55 <Sledge> sounds like a lot
20:39:03 <MrBeige> So I guess it highly depends on how much is available for us...
20:39:10 <Sledge> yeah
20:39:20 <Sledge> we need a contingency in the budget for stuff
20:39:28 <Sledge> but no idea of what it'll need
20:39:28 <moray> again this is stuff Debian should be able to 'borrow' off people
20:39:38 <Sledge> cat5, duct tape, etc
20:39:40 <Sledge> sure
20:39:46 <MrBeige> is 500€ reasonable to have for now (1000€ "bad case" scenerio) ?
20:40:08 <Sledge> leave it at 1k, I think
20:40:20 <Sledge> I'd rather budget and have spare
20:40:23 <MrBeige> #info computer expenses: 1000€ for contingencies
20:40:25 <MrBeige> yep
20:40:29 <MrBeige> next: postage/carriage
20:41:00 <moray> I don't remember what that all was -- some courier costs for visa letters etc., maybe also returning borrowed equipment?
20:41:09 <MrBeige> shipping sponsor bags ?
20:41:17 <moray> that too
20:41:20 <Sledge> books to oreilly, sponsor bags, etc
20:41:27 <Sledge> should be much cheaper this year
20:41:35 <MrBeige> estimate?
20:41:36 <Sledge> call it 500 max
20:41:48 <MrBeige> #info postage/carriage: 500€ max budgeted
20:41:51 <Sledge> again, any spare just carries forward
20:41:53 <MrBeige> next: import duty
20:42:06 <Sledge> for Ts, basically
20:42:14 <moray> so probably similar again this time?
20:42:20 <Sledge> yeah, leave it as-is
20:42:24 <moray> (seeing as we're supposed to be in a customs union)
20:42:35 <MrBeige> #info import duty stays the same: 230€
20:42:38 <MrBeige> advertising
20:42:59 <moray> MrBeige: (well, I'd round up due to 2 years' inflation and random variation)
20:43:14 <MrBeige> anto got us some local advertising through a sponsor
20:43:17 <moray> I don't remember what advertising was, is that the banner?
20:43:40 <Sledge> no, this was via madduck for press stuff
20:43:44 <MrBeige> moray: (will round up in final tabulation)
20:44:17 <h01ger> Gaceta Tecnologica will send us 500 newspapers and will write an article about debconf
20:44:30 <moray> Sledge: what did he spend money on?  mobile phone calls?  (not complaining, just wondering what the headings decode to)
20:44:39 <h01ger> and we will also get some publicity via fon, if i think about that in 2 or 3 weeks ;)
20:44:47 <h01ger> (reminders welcome ;)
20:44:53 <Sledge> moray: it was a one-off cost for something like newswire IIRC
20:45:01 <MrBeige> hm
20:45:07 <moray> Sledge: ahh, could be that yes
20:45:10 <Sledge> don't remember the exact people
20:45:11 <Sledge> sec
20:45:16 <MrBeige> shall we just say 100€ and calli t good?  or zero ?
20:45:28 <h01ger> linux magazine also offered us an article pre-debconf, if we write it
20:45:39 <Sledge> UKPRwire
20:45:49 <Sledge> MrBeige: zero, tbh
20:45:52 <Sledge> h01ger: yup, true
20:45:54 <moray> MrBeige: I think in general we don't spend money on advertising, even if maybe we *should* for the Open Day
20:46:10 <MrBeige> #info we're saying zero for advertising for now
20:46:19 <Hydroxide> I wouldn't be opposed to spending money for a press release, though we can probably get it sponsored at least for dc10
20:46:20 <MrBeige> next: equipment hire and network equipment
20:46:36 <Hydroxide> (nyc == advertising capital of the world :P)
20:46:37 <Sledge> let's talk to linux magazine sooner rather then later, and get the ad done
20:46:46 <MrBeige> Sledge: who should i action for it ?
20:46:58 <Sledge> h01ger: you happy to talk to them?
20:47:02 <MrBeige> I guess we can whiteboard the article
20:47:32 <Sledge> if needs be, I'll do it, but I'm swamped as always
20:47:38 <Sledge> :-(
20:47:46 * Hydroxide is not the right choice :P
20:47:57 <MrBeige> #action Sledge follows up and assigns someone to work on the article for Linux Magazine (but not necessarily do it himself)
20:48:07 <MrBeige> equipment hire and network equipment:
20:48:07 <Sledge> MrBeige: ack
20:48:26 <Sledge> equipment hire was for lights, projector, audio etc
20:48:33 <Sledge> no idea where we are on that this time
20:48:37 <h01ger> Sledge, talk is cheap. i'm not happy to write the article
20:48:38 <MrBeige> so depends on the Junta
20:49:09 <MrBeige> how about 2000€ for now, can reduce later ?
20:49:14 <MrBeige> (for both of those)
20:49:18 <Sledge> yeah, will do
20:49:26 <MrBeige> #save
20:50:01 <MrBeige> oh, "will do" was for me
20:50:06 <Sledge> yes
20:50:27 <Sledge> 2k eur should cover those, as a total guess :-)
20:50:37 <MrBeige> #info equipment for A/V, etc: 2000€, but hopefulyl we can borrow more and it's lower
20:51:00 <MrBeige> ok, what other expenses should we plan on ?
20:51:05 <MrBeige> (exclude travel costs so far)
20:51:38 <MrBeige> #topic 3 minute break while MrBeige works up the summary again
20:51:46 <MrBeige> #save
20:53:39 <moray> MrBeige: well, it seems like 'tables' might expand still
20:53:59 <MrBeige> ah yes
20:54:02 <moray> I don't know if food etc. are firm yet
20:54:05 <MrBeige> there is the big local unknowns
20:54:36 <MrBeige> I'm open to suggestions about what to do about that
20:55:41 <Sledge> do we have any idea on when more concrete numbers might be available?
20:55:45 <moray> I'm not sure there's much useful to do beyond realise they might expand still
20:56:16 <MrBeige> yeah
20:56:19 <moray> Sledge: not really, MrBeige has been prodding (and it's been translated to the localteam list as well), but we know anto/cek don't have enough time
20:56:22 <MrBeige> also air conditioners...
20:56:25 <moray> ah yes
20:57:26 <MrBeige> http://rkd.zgib.net/hidden/dc9-budget.html updated
20:57:44 <MrBeige> #info the budget now says 85000€ expenses
20:58:24 <moray> €500 sounds quite low to rent chairs and tables for everyone, given that that was the previous estimate for one night-time hacklab
20:58:35 <moray> but I have no idea what is already available there etc.
20:58:40 <Sledge> quite
20:58:53 <MrBeige> so income - expenses =  13k deficit
20:59:17 <MrBeige> moray: yes, it sounds low to me too... maybe add 1000 to it?  (I won't go and update it right now)
20:59:42 <Sledge> no idea, tbh
20:59:53 <MrBeige> it's small, we can think about it later
20:59:58 <Sledge> that's only ~4 EUR to 5 EUR pp
21:00:03 <MrBeige> #action MrBeige email localteam about costs of tables/security
21:00:10 <MrBeige> oh, wait... I think I already did that (heh)
21:00:20 * schultmc knows what tables and chairs cost here but that doesn't mean anything about the costs in .es
21:00:33 <MrBeige> #topic travel costs
21:00:34 <Hydroxide> schultmc: they cost in euros there.
21:00:40 <schultmc> Hydroxide: :P
21:00:57 <MrBeige> having at *least* 10k€ for travel costs seems reasonable, no ?
21:01:32 <MrBeige> DC7 was 13.3k
21:01:33 <moray> MrBeige: you're giving us the money?  great! ;)
21:01:45 <MrBeige> moray: heh
21:01:54 <MrBeige> moray: debian could give it to us
21:02:22 <Sledge> we're currently being asked for ~45k EUR for travel sponsorship
21:02:24 <MrBeige> moray: though, mainly being a "how much is worth it"
21:02:33 <schultmc> dc8 was 126k ARS (~24k EUR)
21:02:38 <moray> well, in that scenario I'd rather just label it as "Debian paying to take people to DebConf" rather than "giving DebConf money"
21:02:50 <Hydroxide> dc8 was also in a harder to access location and in a better economy
21:02:56 <Sledge> yeah
21:03:20 <Sledge> my current plan is for Debian to pay ~USD 20k towards sponsorship here
21:03:20 <MrBeige> yes
21:03:38 <moray> though I guess for dc9 people will have forgotten to add up the train/bus costs when they asked -- not our problem, but their 'needed' amounts may end up truer than usual
21:03:49 <Sledge> we're explicitly *not* going to cover everything that was asked for
21:03:53 <MrBeige> Sledge: on top of making up whatever deficits are run otherwise ?
21:04:06 <MrBeige> Sledge: meaning, (extra conf costs) + 20kUSD travel ?
21:04:09 <Sledge> as there are a number of people with no justification for travel imnsho
21:04:15 <Hydroxide> 20000 USD is a bit over 14000 EUR
21:04:22 <Sledge> MrBeige: I was initially thinking 20k USD period
21:04:38 <MrBeige> Sledge: ah, that is also reasonable.  (we jsut need to specify which it is)
21:04:45 <Sledge> bbut atm it looks like that will be eaten in the deficit already :-(
21:05:13 * Sledge looks at numbers again
21:05:18 <MrBeige> #info oops, I needed to say: deficit right now is 13k€
21:05:54 <MrBeige> I just checked in updated spreadsheet
21:06:00 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: and the income side of the ledger is at what now?
21:06:05 <FBI> debconf-team: 3 mrbeige-guest committed revision 883 to debconf-team: New budget for everyone
21:06:05 <FBI> debconf-team: files changed: U   dc9/dc9-budget.ods
21:06:14 <MrBeige> OHH attendees fees
21:06:16 <Hydroxide> right
21:06:16 <moray> in a few days we can *probably* reduce some costs a bit
21:06:19 <Hydroxide> attendees fees
21:06:21 <moray> if we have fewer attendees
21:06:24 <Hydroxide> moray: haha
21:06:25 <Sledge> MrBeige: the "possible" numbers for sponsors are not included in the budget atm, are they?
21:06:29 <Hydroxide> moray: sad but true
21:06:37 <schultmc> Hydroxide: ~70k EUR pledged+received
21:06:48 <Hydroxide> schultmc: PLUS attendees fees right?
21:06:49 <moray> Hydroxide: well, I don't expect a big drop, it's normal a few people don't reconfirm though
21:06:53 <Hydroxide> moray: sure
21:06:57 <moray> Hydroxide: ideally we wouldn't need 'extra' accommodation
21:07:01 <Hydroxide> ya
21:07:02 <schultmc> Hydroxide: right
21:07:11 <schultmc> Hydroxide: that number accounts for 0 attendee fees
21:07:14 <Hydroxide> so actual shortfall is more like €3k?
21:07:21 <Sledge> ok, fine then
21:07:25 <Hydroxide> i.e. roughly breaking even ignoring travel sponsorship?
21:07:29 <moray> though remember we're always at liberty to not give everyone food/accommodation, too
21:07:36 <MrBeige> #info (incomes: 72k pledged + 5k possible + 10k fees) (expenses: 85k) ==> 2k extra !
21:07:44 <Sledge> Debian will pay in USD 20K towards DC9 at this point
21:07:50 <Hydroxide> moray: true, though that would be fairer if we had said that more than 1.5 months in advance of the conference
21:07:52 <Sledge> if there is any remainder, it goes on to DC10
21:07:57 <Sledge> as the seed fund
21:08:08 <MrBeige> so with this new accounting, that *is* 20k for travel costs
21:08:16 <MrBeige> (adding in the forgetten things)
21:08:20 <Sledge> yep
21:08:27 <Sledge> which is about 1/3 of what we've been asked for
21:08:30 <Hydroxide> great
21:08:36 <Sledge> for me, that's about the right level I think
21:08:41 <MrBeige> yes
21:08:47 <schultmc> that's not necessarily a problem - there's always been a cutoff
21:08:50 <MrBeige> Sledge: can this become public knowledge now ?
21:08:52 <Sledge> yup
21:08:53 <Hydroxide> sounds appropriate to me.
21:08:56 <Sledge> MrBeige: yes, go ahead
21:09:21 <Hydroxide> Sledge: I assume this will come out of Debian's huge excess of funds at SPI? :)
21:09:28 <Sledge> Hydroxide: absolutely, yes
21:09:36 <Hydroxide> makes sense indeed
21:09:41 <MrBeige> #agreed (well, Sledge decrees) Debian will give DebConf 20k USD.  As it looks now, this basically goes into travel costs.
21:09:45 <Sledge> I'm still hoping that we'll get more sponsorship money in yet
21:09:51 <Sledge> but this will guarantee costs
21:09:53 <Hydroxide> Sledge: would be good of course
21:10:09 <Hydroxide> #info excess money left over from that 20k or other DC9 money goes to DC10 as seed money
21:10:22 <MrBeige> yes
21:10:31 <Hydroxide> just noting in the meetbot summary, that's all :)
21:10:48 <MrBeige> #topic who tracks how much we have actually recieved ?
21:11:25 <schultmc> I can track things on the SPI side - I don't have access to ffis though
21:11:28 <Hydroxide> Sledge: <hats="debconf global orga,dc10 localteam lead">thank you very much Mr DPL! It'll help a lot.</hats>
21:11:46 <MrBeige> who is making sure that our invoices are being paid, and we are getting the money in our accounts?
21:11:48 <Sledge> :-)
21:12:05 <moray> Hydroxide: Sledge should switch hats and thank himself :)
21:12:07 <Sledge> MrBeige: I'm not aware of any invoices to date
21:12:30 <Sledge> in terms of money coming in, we have people watching all the bank accounts
21:12:30 <MrBeige> Sledge: for DC7ltd ?
21:12:31 <Hydroxide> moray: also, my XML/SGML was malformed. ah well.
21:12:36 <MrBeige> oh, I mean in terms of money coming in
21:12:50 <Sledge> DC7 money will be sent to FFIS as soon as the last bits come in
21:12:56 <Sledge> then we close DC7
21:12:57 <MrBeige> are the sponsors-table people updating that ?
21:13:10 <Sledge> yes
21:13:19 * Hydroxide cheers for the prospect of DC7ltd closing before the start of DC10! :)
21:13:31 <MrBeige> but not all sponsors contacts can see the bank accounts...
21:13:31 <Sledge> Hydroxide: hell, I want it dead
21:13:36 <Hydroxide> ya
21:13:44 <Sledge> it makes my personal tax status much more awkward...
21:13:58 <Sledge> MrBeige: I think we have enough
21:14:01 <Hydroxide> that's at least one issue that doesn't arise with SPI. but we digress...
21:14:06 <MrBeige> ok
21:14:36 <MrBeige> do we need someone in charge of watching transactions/invoices to/from us and making sure that money is tracked?
21:15:03 <schultmc> I think we already have that
21:15:08 <MrBeige> who ?
21:15:12 <Sledge> yup
21:15:34 <Sledge> the issue is going to arise when we start having to pay things on the ground in .es
21:15:41 <MrBeige> yes
21:16:11 <moray> we also need to be sure *how* local payments are to be made at short notice
21:16:20 <Sledge> and for that I don't know how to deal with it
21:16:35 <moray> and if there will be petty cash extracted from somewhere, etc.
21:16:38 <Sledge> if it comes to the crunch, we have credit cards if that will work
21:16:45 <moray> sure
21:16:53 <Sledge> who is prepared to volunteer for money on site?
21:16:58 * schultmc has an SPI card but there'd be international transaction fees
21:17:07 <moray> (I won't be there in DebCamp, which is probably when costs will happen)
21:17:22 <MrBeige> yeah
21:17:25 * MrBeige won't be there
21:18:15 <MrBeige> #help we need someone to me the on-site money manager
21:19:00 <MrBeige> hm
21:19:01 <moray> someone who speaks Spanish (reasonably) might be sensible in case there are things to sign involving money
21:19:04 <MrBeige> we are running out of steam
21:19:14 <MrBeige> #help ^-- someone who speaks spanish!
21:19:25 <Hydroxide> I was going to volunteer, except for what moray said
21:19:36 <Hydroxide> if that isn't necessary then I volunteer, but I agree it'd be preferable
21:19:38 <moray> Hydroxide: well, that's kind of secondary, you can get a translator
21:19:44 <Hydroxide> moray: admittedly
21:19:46 <moray> was just thinking out loud
21:19:53 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: can you volunteer to be the global money manager, and then get someone on site to help translating ?
21:20:05 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: sure.
21:20:09 <moray> that sounds good
21:20:30 <MrBeige> #action Hydroxide volunteers to be the global money manager and get practical issues of payment worked out
21:20:56 <MrBeige> #topic any other business ?
21:21:20 <MrBeige> anything else ?
21:21:35 <MrBeige> #topic next meeting
21:21:42 <Sledge> we need estimates for a/c
21:21:45 <MrBeige> do we *need* another budget team meeting ?
21:22:08 <MrBeige> #action MrBeige prods to find out about air conditioning costs
21:22:11 <MrBeige> Sledge: good point
21:22:26 <MrBeige> #info no budget team meeting scheduled - we'll have it if need be
21:22:38 <Sledge> that works
21:22:49 <moray> I think the waiting is more on finding costs than planning
21:22:50 <MrBeige> do we have job assignments all done ?
21:23:11 <MrBeige> do people know who is responsible for what ?
21:23:42 <MrBeige> I gues I'll work on that later
21:23:46 <Sledge> I think so
21:23:53 <MrBeige> anything else befoer I close ?
21:24:00 <moray> not from me
21:24:20 <MrBeige> ok, thanks to everyone here...
21:24:28 <MrBeige> this was really long, but important.
21:24:34 <Hydroxide> quite
21:24:37 <Hydroxide> and thanks again to DPL Sledge
21:24:42 <MrBeige> AOL
21:24:49 <MrBeige> #endmeeting