Started logging meeting in #debconf-team
[18:59:07] <Tincho> uhm, different dates :)
[18:59:28] * marga waves.
[18:59:49] <Tincho> yeah, my fault, I was 2 minutes wrong
[18:59:49] <Ganneff> 2 minutes too early. bad chair :)
[18:59:54] <marga> Ganneff: can you do the all-peple ping?
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [@Ganneff ] [ cpt_nemo ] [ FBI ] [ madduck ] [ moray ] [ stockholm ]
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [ alphascorpii] [ dererk-ar] [ fil ] [ madduck|afk] [ paravoid ] [ Tincho ]
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [ amaya ] [ des ] [ gregoa ] [ marga ] [ pixie ] [ tokkee ]
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [ anibal_ ] [ don_inlab] [ GyrosGeier] [ Maulkin ] [ psn|work_] [ Tolimar ]
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [ bdale ] [ edrz ] [ h01ger ] [ maxyz ] [ santiago ] [ WorkingGeier]
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [ beuno ] [ ernesto ] [ jvw ] [ meetbot ] [ sgran ]
[19:00:03] <Ganneff> 20:59:57 [ broonie ] [ faw ] [ luciano ] [ mhy ] [ Sledge ]
[19:00:19] <Ganneff> marga: /names and then copy/paste :)
[19:00:38] <marga> Ganneff: ok. I thought it was something more elaborate :)
[19:00:47] <psn|work_> cool - that doesn't highlight me.
[19:00:50] <dererk-ar> lol
[19:00:52] <luciano> ready?
[19:00:56] <Tincho> #topic DebConf Dates
[19:01:19] <Tincho> Well, that's the first topic. We should decide the final dates for dc8
[19:01:20] <Ganneff> h01ger: bug. meetbot should set /topic
[19:01:30] <Ganneff> Tincho: tomorrow! :)
[19:01:37] <Ganneff> whats local teams preference for it?
[19:02:00] * beuno waves
[19:02:09] * des o/
[19:02:11] <marga> Last time, we agreed on making a wikipage about other confs.
[19:02:16] <marga> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf8/OtherConfs was made.
[19:02:40] <marga> The info there is not complete. We think that's because not that many confs plan so much in advance.
[19:02:55] <marga> Thus, we can decide now and let other people deal with the clashing.
[19:03:11] <Ganneff> ay.
[19:03:15] * maxyz nods timidly and says "hi"
[19:03:20] * Sledge waves
[19:03:20] <Ganneff> froscon is something important for some european dds
[19:03:33] <marga> Ok.
[19:03:33] * madduck nods
[19:03:41] * dererk-ar joins to the waving pals
[19:03:47] <marga> So, we should go for first and second?
[19:03:54] <Ganneff> if that works for you, yes.
[19:04:02] <madduck> weeks of august?
[19:04:06] <Ganneff> yes
[19:04:07] <marga> madduck: yes.
[19:04:10] * madduck is GREATLY in favour
[19:04:19] <Tincho> the problem is weather basicly... we hope it to be better the last two weeks
[19:04:25] <marga> froscon seems to be scheduled for the weekend at the end of the third.
[19:04:31] <Ganneff> Tincho: how much better?
[19:04:45] <beuno> marga, first and second makes it overlap with the holiday for debian day?
[19:04:47] <Ganneff> Tincho: we survived the UK, we can live with rain! :)
[19:04:56] * Sledge would *really* prefer last 2 weeks if possible
[19:04:57] <marga> Ganneff: the probability of sun and short-sleeved weather increases.
[19:04:57] <Tincho> Ganneff: yes, but it makes a much nicer conf :)
[19:05:03] <marga> beuno: yes.
[19:05:09] <psn|work_> Sledge: why?
[19:05:28] <Sledge> psn|work_: family holiday being planned for the beginning
[19:05:31] <madduck> i cannot attend if it's after 24 august
[19:05:38] <Sledge> (selfish, I know... :-P)
[19:05:43] <madduck> (selfish, I know... :-P)
[19:05:46] <Ganneff> Sledge: plan different
[19:05:54] <marga> Sledge: as Ganneff said :)
[19:06:12] <Sledge> bah... :-P
[19:06:23] <Tincho> madduck: yours in non-movable?
[19:06:28] <marga> So, how do we decide?
[19:06:37] <des> flip a coin?
[19:06:38] <marga> Tincho: he already explained, he's invited to a conf.
[19:06:39] <psn|work_> vote?
[19:06:47] <Ganneff> we could vote.
[19:06:50] <Tincho> ah, yes
[19:06:55] <madduck> Tincho: http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20070926.152459.848bc041.en.html
[19:06:56] * beuno wonders if froscon won't be moved if we decide to have DebConf the last 2 weeks...
[19:07:01] <madduck> basically, no.
[19:07:01] <Ganneff> so. hands up who wants the first two weeks
[19:07:06] * Ganneff raises hand
[19:07:07] * madduck raises hand
[19:07:21] * maxyz raises hand
[19:07:34] <Ganneff> beuno: dont think so.
[19:07:51] <Ganneff> thats three. not more?
[19:07:56] <madduck> are weeks 2-3 not an option?
[19:08:07] <Ganneff> so - hands up who wants it the last two weeks? :)
[19:08:09] <marga> wait, I want to check what froscon is.
[19:08:18] <marga> madduck: 2-3 would still clash with froscon.
[19:08:19] <Ganneff> marga: european/german conference
[19:08:20] <Tincho> madduck: but that doesn't clash too?
[19:08:21] <madduck> marga: froscon == the new linuxtag in some ways.
[19:08:32] <Ganneff> where DDs are in orga too
[19:08:32] <madduck> Tincho: i would have to leave a day early...
[19:08:37] * Sledge raises hand
[19:08:40] <maxyz> madduck: Mmh, there is a holiday in the middle, that could be a problem for 2 and 3.
[19:08:50] <marga> madduck: ah, ok. Got it.
[19:08:59] * marga raiser her hand for 1-2, then.
[19:09:13] <Ganneff> so we have 4 for 1-2, one for 3-4 atm.
[19:09:23] * des add himself to 1-2
[19:09:32] <Tincho> I don't have a strong opinion about it
[19:09:36] * psn|work_ abstains
[19:09:40] <Ganneff> so 5/1 atm
[19:09:41] <madduck> 5:1:2
[19:09:45] * beuno abstains too
[19:09:48] <madduck> 5:1:3
[19:09:58] <Ganneff> Sledge: looks like you lost :)
[19:10:04] <Sledge> booo, hissss
[19:10:08] <Ganneff> seems its for 1-2 then.
[19:10:12] <des> neither do I but no-clashing seems mor important than better wheater
[19:10:18] <Ganneff> marga: want to write the announce mail?
[19:10:22] <marga> Ganneff: sure.
[19:10:22] <Tincho> #agreed DC8 will be held the first two weeks of August
[19:10:27] <Ganneff> great
[19:10:40] <Ganneff> marga: ping me and i approve it on debconf-announce when its send.
[19:10:42] <maxyz> beuno: 1-2 allows the debday be held during jrsl
[19:10:50] <Tincho> that would be approx. 2-17/8
[19:10:53] <Ganneff> Tincho: next point, master chair! :)
[19:10:54] <marga> Hey ASCIIGirl ! If you are here, we just decided to do DC8 in the first and second weeks of August.
[19:11:08] <beuno> maxyz, oh, in that case, me useless +1 for week 1-2
[19:11:09] <Tincho> #topic Sponsor Categories
[19:11:09] * madduck dances
[19:11:20] <ASCIIGirl> great marga...
[19:11:30] <Tincho> ASCIIGirl: o/
[19:11:38] <ASCIIGirl> Tincho: \o
[19:11:39] <Ganneff> ewww. shudder. me hate topic! :)
[19:11:44] <marga> So, beuno and ASCIIGirl were in charge of coming up with some categories.
[19:11:52] <beuno> h01ger, you around?
[19:11:57] <des> Ganneff: need a hug?
[19:12:08] <Ganneff> beuno: he said he has to leave, so possibly not
[19:12:21] <Ganneff> des: need a kick? :)
[19:12:26] <Tincho> heh
[19:12:34] <beuno> marga, I didn't prepare the categories, I got stuck waiting for a document I should't of :/
[19:12:42] <marga> Ok.
[19:12:48] <Ganneff> so this for next meeting?
[19:12:49] <beuno> I'll make sure to get it done this week and send to the emailing list
[19:12:53] <Ganneff> good
[19:13:05] <marga> linux.conf.au has a nice page: http://linux.conf.au/sponsors-media/sponsorship-packages
[19:13:25] <marga> Ganneff: networking stuff is missing.
[19:13:31] <des> next topic?
[19:13:34] <Ganneff> marga: i meant this one topic
[19:13:38] <Ganneff> Tincho: next please? :)
[19:13:40] <beuno> marga, any comments on the "corporate sponsorship" idea you had?
[19:14:01] <Tincho> #action beuno will send mail
[19:14:14] <beuno> scary...
[19:14:16] <Tincho> #topic Work we can start doing in advance (servers setup, network planning)
[19:14:17] <marga> beuno: I want to prepare a webpage so that it's clear for all. Will try to do it before next meeting.
[19:14:40] <Tincho> So, I called for this
[19:14:52] <Ganneff> .
[19:14:55] <Tincho> basicly, what I aim to do is to have a very short set-up at debconf
[19:15:03] <Ganneff> good
[19:15:06] <Tincho> so I will like to plan everything we can beforehand
[19:15:16] * marga agrees with Tincho.
[19:15:22] <Tincho> and have tarballs with the servers months in advance
[19:15:22] <beuno> marga, great, and that url you sent is a nice start :D
[19:15:26] <Ganneff> the thing is - half or more of what you plan is void when you are there.
[19:15:27] <des> We all agree that would be great
[19:15:35] <Ganneff> Tincho: how, if you dont know what kind of machines you have?
[19:15:37] * Sledge nods Ganneff
[19:15:43] <marga> Ganneff, Sledge: why?
[19:15:52] <Tincho> we don't need the actual hardware.. we can use any computer and the just save the tarball
[19:15:59] <Ganneff> marga: cos that happens always. real life is usually always different.
[19:16:04] <Sledge> Tincho: tarball of what?
[19:16:14] <Tincho> Sledge: a complete installation with the services configured
[19:16:20] <Tincho> that's the main work
[19:16:22] <Ganneff> which services on which machines?
[19:16:23] <marga> Sledge: the server installation / configuration. A FAI image would be the same thing.
[19:16:29] <Ganneff> how do you know how many machines you have?
[19:16:39] <Tincho> Ganneff: we can expect a minimum
[19:16:44] <Ganneff> the machine install time is also the smalles time you need.
[19:16:46] <Ganneff> thats fast
[19:16:53] <marga> Well, we should try to agree on which services on which machines we want.
[19:16:54] <Tincho> or if we have one big machinne, we can use xen instances
[19:16:56] <Ganneff> this year it was all done in very few days
[19:17:10] <Ganneff> much more time is taken by networking.
[19:17:14] <Tincho> Ganneff: the thing is, I will like setup time to be much less than that
[19:17:15] <Ganneff> running cables, getting switches out
[19:17:17] <beuno> Ganneff, it did take a few days to have a stable internet connection.. :p
[19:17:29] <Tincho> Ganneff: and I was talking about network planning too: wifi, switches, etc
[19:17:50] <Ganneff> Tincho: for that the only good plan *at this point* is "get only managed switches"
[19:17:55] * Sledge nods Ganneff
[19:18:00] <des> Ganneff: is really the phisical setup the one that takes the time?
[19:18:06] <Ganneff> Tincho: netowrk/machine plannings should be around 1 - 2 months in advance of conf
[19:18:11] <Ganneff> des: yes
[19:18:13] * madduck must run off
[19:18:17] <Sledge> franky, for such a big system it just takes quite a long time to physically get things set up
[19:18:25] <Tincho> Ganneff: there was a guy who was in orga for a iee meeting that sent a nice document with requirements. we can use that as a basis
[19:18:25] <marga> madduck: good luck, and by
[19:18:35] <Tincho> madduck: bye
[19:18:40] <Sledge> and regardless of how much up-front planning there will always be surprises on-site
[19:19:00] <Ganneff> we do have all stuff from dc7. we have some new stuff from our new xen host. that should get the usual setup time for a machine down to an hour, which is inclusive waiting for mirror.
[19:19:01] <Tincho> yes, shit happens. but we can minimize that
[19:19:14] <marga> Sledge: well, that's true, but the better you plan, the least surprises you get.
[19:19:39] <Tincho> What I would like to have, is that the first day of debcamp, everything is up and running
[19:19:42] <Ganneff> and we are way more admins this year. 3 global admins will only do full networking/machine work, then you add $anynumber of local admins too.
[19:19:42] <Sledge> oh, agreed
[19:19:45] <Ganneff> so more people.
[19:19:51] <des> Ganneff: can we have a description of 'all stuff from dc7'?
[19:19:52] <Ganneff> Tincho: oh, sure.
[19:20:02] <Sledge> I'm just saying don't expect things to be *too* quick :-)
[19:20:06] <Ganneff> des: the setup we used. our configs for the wireless gate, the machines, etc.
[19:20:17] <Tincho> Ganneff: and I volunteer for going to the venue before debcamp starts for achieving that
[19:20:31] <Ganneff> Tincho: im sure i will be there at least one day earlier, yes.
[19:20:41] <Ganneff> and if mhy/sgran can manage it, im sure they do too.
[19:20:43] * beuno whispers ASCIIGirl is on dialup
[19:20:55] <Ganneff> beuno: more on dialdown
[19:21:02] <dererk-ar> lol
[19:21:10] <beuno> Ganneff, :p
[19:21:20] <Tincho> Ganneff: great
[19:21:26] <beuno> des, maybe we can start part of the setup en bsas?
[19:21:29] <des> Ganneff: can Tincho have access to that to see what we have and what else could we prepare in advance?
[19:21:34] <Ganneff> Tincho: anyway. the admin team sure is up for any planning in advance, but thats for much nearer to the conf. currently we need to get hardware sponsored, also layout plans of the place we will be.
[19:21:50] <Ganneff> beuno: en bsas?
[19:21:51] <marga> Ganneff: mainly, what we need right now is to know what needs to be done, what setups we will need, etc.
[19:22:06] <Tincho> Ganneff: in buenos aires, he meant
[19:22:24] <marga> beuno: that's the idea.
[19:22:24] <Ganneff> we need a good networking. ie cables, switches. also good knowledge of the building.
[19:22:31] <Ganneff> so we can plan wireless.
[19:22:32] <Tincho> Ganneff: as marga said, we can start... not finish, but any work in advance is good
[19:22:34] <beuno> Ganneff, the conference is ~400km from where we live
[19:22:53] <Ganneff> (but teviot showed us that good planning doesnt mean much, if the layout of the building gets completly changed between the las time you visit it and us arriving)
[19:23:14] <Tincho> we hope this year to be much better in that respect
[19:23:16] <des> layout plans would be good, marga can you talk to the hotel again about this?
[19:23:21] <Tincho> this place is constantly used for conferences
[19:23:36] <maxyz> Tincho: I'd would like to have full net connectibity as early a 2 week before debcamp.
[19:23:37] <beuno> Ganneff, we can at least try, can't we? "D
[19:23:41] <Ganneff> we also need to know, as far as possible, where they do have internal cabling, and if we are allowed to use/extend it
[19:23:42] <marga> des: I can. Although the layout of the hacklab will be done by ourselves, with our one dividers.
[19:23:42] <psn|work_> Plans are worthless, but planning is useful.
[19:23:45] <Tincho> maxyz: agreed
[19:24:12] <Ganneff> i do understand the wish to plan early, its just too early. :)
[19:24:17] <marga> Ganneff: we already know many of the answers to all that.
[19:24:29] <Ganneff> (and jftr - i am against using fai on any of our machines we admin)
[19:24:36] <Ganneff> marga: great.
[19:24:48] <marga> Ganneff: why are you against fai?
[19:25:16] <Tincho> I prefer tarballs
[19:25:21] <psn|work_> a discussion of the merits of different admining approches can wait, I think.
[19:25:27] <Tincho> yeah
[19:25:33] <Ganneff> well. against what i saw last years, possibly. but i already talked with mrfai that he may help us with our setup stuff
[19:25:40] <marga> psn|work_: sure, I didn't intend to discuss, I just found it interesting.
[19:25:43] <Ganneff> Tincho: tarballs-- :)
[19:25:48] <Tincho> :)
[19:25:57] <psn|work_> marga: oh, same.
[19:26:12] <marga> ok, then... We aren't making much progress in this area.
[19:26:28] <des> Ganneff: so you basically aim for the install from scratch?
[19:26:40] <des> and move configs over
[19:26:44] <marga> We would like to be able to prepare as much as possible in as much advance as possible. For that, we need to know: what's already there, and what needs to be done for 2008.
[19:26:45] <Tincho> Ganneff: don't you find it possible that we can have the complete setup before we have the hardware?
[19:26:50] <Ganneff> des: mostly, together with some local config.
[19:27:06] <Ganneff> Tincho: complete setup done? no. planned what to do? mostly.
[19:27:19] <marga> Ganneff: can you help us with my two points up there?
[19:27:28] <Ganneff> des: the time getting a machine up and running is not that much.
[19:28:02] <Ganneff> marga: yes. but we shouldnt have it all in this meeting, Tincho (and others who want) should discuss with me, sgran, mhy out of the meeting
[19:28:11] <marga> ok
[19:28:14] <Tincho> ok
[19:28:21] <marga> Tincho: tell the meetbot about it.
[19:28:45] <Tincho> #agreed Talks with the admin team about setting up in advance will continue outside the meeting
[19:28:54] <des> Tincho: and about the layout plans for marga ;-P
[19:29:13] <Tincho> what was agreed,e xactly?
[19:29:22] <marga> des: yeah, but really, the layout is a big rectangle right now. We plan to do our own layout, remember?
[19:29:23] <Ganneff> that we need hotel layout plans
[19:29:28] <marga> Tincho: that I should get all the info.
[19:29:37] <Ganneff> marga: for the whole hotel, ie all rooms and where they are?
[19:29:52] <marga> Ganneff: ah, no, I meant the hacklabs and stuff place.
[19:29:52] <Tincho> #agreed marga will find all the info we can get about room, layout, cabling etc.
[19:30:01] <Ganneff> marga: i mean the whole area :)
[19:30:12] <des> marga: I do, but current cabling, power stuff, columns etc, are things to consider that should be on the plans
[19:30:14] * Tincho nods
[19:30:15] <marga> Ganneff: about rooms and stuff, we already have the info, but well, I'll try to make a summary mail about all that.
[19:30:39] <marga> des: ok
[19:30:47] <Tincho> anything else?
[19:31:11] <Tincho> oh, last agreed should be an action
[19:31:19] <marga> Tincho: nvm
[19:31:33] <Tincho> #action Tincho will put actual dates on the website :)
[19:31:53] <Ganneff> #action marga will send announce mail to d-d-a and d-a
[19:31:56] <Ganneff> Tincho: ^^^
[19:31:59] <marga> Tincho: yes, we all need to work a bit on the website.
[19:32:02] <Tincho> #action marga will send announce mail to d-d-a and d-a
[19:32:04] <Ganneff> also talk with madduck about the press@ stuff
[19:32:11] <marga> Well, I think we are done for today, aren't we?
[19:32:22] <des> I think we are
[19:32:22] <Tincho> ah, something more: I've setup a page in the wiki, to start forming teams
[19:32:25] <marga> Next meeting November 19th ?
[19:32:35] <Tincho> #link http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf8/Teams
[19:32:40] <marga> Tincho: right.
[19:33:04] <Tincho> marga: I'm ok for that date
[19:33:05] * Sledge waves
[19:33:09] <Sledge> ttfn
[19:33:33] <Tincho> any objection for the next meeting date?
[19:33:43] <beuno> same time?
[19:33:47] <marga> yep
[19:33:56] <Ganneff> ok for me.
[19:34:10] <Ganneff> Tincho: are the teams ment to be seperate "global/local" or just all in one listing?
[19:34:20] <Tincho> Ganneff: all in one
[19:34:23] <Ganneff> fine
[19:34:24] <dererk-ar> 12 of nov?
[19:34:38] <Tincho> dererk-ar: why?
[19:35:03] <marga> We had agreed to do it the third Monday of the month.
[19:35:17] <dererk-ar> Tincho, Thought It was the second monday, but I realise that it isn't right now :)
[19:35:32] <Tincho> ok
[19:35:36] <Tincho> then,
[19:35:36] <Tincho> #agreed Next meeting will be held on November 19th, 19:00 UTC
[19:35:53] <Tincho> a call for help: I need help with stuff for the website :)
[19:36:05] <beuno> Tincho, I can help
[19:36:07] * dererk-ar sings in
[19:36:11] <Tincho> please, do
[19:36:21] <dererk-ar> sign :)
[19:36:21] <Tincho> well. that's it for today?
[19:36:41] <beuno> Tincho, just send over a list of things you need, and we'll split it among us :D
[19:36:49] <Ganneff> Tincho: still ok with moving the website svn to svn.debconf.org, so we can give much more access to it without giving out access to rest of svn?
[19:37:19] <Tincho> Ganneff: I'm ok with that.. althought it will break a little consisntency
[19:37:39] <Ganneff> Tincho: which is why its not done yet, yes.
[19:37:39] <Tincho> Ganneff: in any case, I can handle commiting for everyone.. the problem is writing the stuff :)
[19:37:43] <marga> Tincho: please end the meeting so I can profit from the bot's minutes