16:59:09 <h01ger> #startmeeting Post-Mortem MiniDebConf Hamburg 2018
16:59:09 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Jun  6 16:59:09 2018 UTC.  The chair is h01ger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:59:09 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:59:27 <h01ger> #topic say hi if you there / working on an agenda
16:59:35 <h01ger> hi :)
16:59:41 <gregoa> moin
17:00:11 <h01ger> agenda suggestions: 1. impressions / feedback / improvements 2. stuff left to do 3. AOB
17:00:35 <h01ger> anything else?
17:00:56 <h01ger> also i suggest we wait 4-9min, until petn-randall is here
17:06:25 <georg> hi
17:06:33 <georg> (and sorry for the delay)
17:06:46 <h01ger> #save
17:07:19 <h01ger> hi georg - you havent missed much: http://meetbot.debian.net/debconf-hamburg/2018/debconf-hamburg.2018-06-06-16.59.log.html
17:08:25 <georg> thanks!
17:08:38 <h01ger> agenda suggestions: 1. impressions / feedback 2. suggestions for improvements  3. stuff left to do 4. AOB
17:08:53 <georg> what's the fourth point about?
17:09:05 <georg> also, not sure if it fits here, but: what about next yeat? ;)
17:09:14 <gregoa> aob = any other business / Allfälliges
17:09:38 <georg> ic, thanks
17:09:47 <gregoa> so next year falls under 4. :)
17:09:50 <georg> k :)
17:10:25 <h01ger> agenda suggestion: 1. impressions / feedback 2. suggestions for improvements  3. stuff left to do 4. next year / again? 5. AOB
17:10:50 <gregoa> look, still the 4th item
17:10:53 * h01ger doesnt want to discuss next year now. not before the last one is truely finish
17:10:54 <h01ger> ed
17:11:07 <h01ger> lets start… i have another meeting in 48min
17:11:19 <h01ger> #topic 1. impressions / feedback
17:11:42 <georg> I liked it a lot, personally
17:11:47 <georg> thanks for organizing
17:12:06 <georg> the food was a big +++
17:12:12 * h01ger is happy about the lot of positive feedback received, offline, on irc, via mail & via blogs. i'm also happy about the linked reports from the wikipage
17:12:24 <gregoa> I was very happy. great location, especially cantina and dock europe, lots of space
17:13:10 <gregoa> and a photo exhibition and a bar (before the loud party started :)) and fridges and places outside
17:13:35 <h01ger> there were two minor food complaints, both i have passed on to the kitchen: a.) too much seitan for vegans and b.) at least once: same tools used for meat and not meat - both "complaints" were acknowledged immediatly and b.) should never happen indeed…
17:13:39 <Tincho> gregoa++
17:14:19 <georg> I don't understand a)
17:14:39 <h01ger> georg: did you eat vegan? if not, that probably explains
17:14:49 <georg> No, I didn't
17:15:38 <h01ger> regarding registration stats. we had ~90 registrations and roughly 80 people showed up (frontdesk didnt do stats and just threw remaining nametags away, so we needed to guess)
17:15:52 <h01ger> but then also 10 people didnt confirm
17:16:01 <h01ger> so basically everybody who confirmed showed up
17:16:10 * petn-randall waves.
17:16:14 <h01ger> and it seems that 90% eat if good free food is provided :)
17:16:17 <h01ger> #save
17:16:32 <h01ger> petn-randall: hi. backlog is at http://meetbot.debian.net/debconf-hamburg/2018/debconf-hamburg.2018-06-06-16.59.log.html
17:16:47 <h01ger> regarding budget:
17:17:45 <h01ger> roughly: we had 10k €, spent 2k on the venue, 1k on videoteam transport etc, 2k on shirts, 5k on food. IOW: minidebconf would have been possible with 3k (no shirts, attendees pay food themselves)
17:18:45 <h01ger> i'm very happy we had these sponsors and could pay food for everyone. i think that hugely contributes to a nice athmosphere and people sticking around and chatting over dinner. (else some people go out for fancier food and some others get cheap food elsewhere and the group is split at every meal...)
17:19:09 <gregoa> right, the sponsored food was very nice
17:19:34 * h01ger still plans to write a public blog post with some summary and a final budget, once all payments are done
17:19:37 <petn-randall> Indeed. I also thought the food was a big bonus, I also found the vegan food pretty great (I had it once or twice over the meat food).
17:19:48 <h01ger> (see next++ topic about stuff to do)
17:19:50 <Tincho> yeah. food in the venue is a big plus
17:20:25 <Tincho> h01ger: I want to reiterate that I loved the venue (including dock europe and the cantina) even with all the building going around
17:20:36 <petn-randall> +1
17:20:41 <h01ger> :))
17:21:15 <h01ger> regarding content, someone wanted abstracts to better be able to choose talks to attend, to which azeem replied that content team was kinda adhoc and understuffed and maybe using a conf-management system would solve that
17:21:41 <h01ger> i'm not sure i want a full blown conf-management system, i do like the lightweightness of using a wiki page
17:22:01 <petn-randall> Yes, for next year I'd like to steal the CMS used for debconf, I found out about it a bit too late for me to set it up.
17:22:06 <h01ger> but then, organizing the beds also needs... some more organisation ;)
17:22:06 <gregoa> ack, having descriptions of some talks would have helped me too. - just on one wiki page or whatever would have been enough IMO
17:22:22 <petn-randall> CMS for registration of attendees, and also for the talks.
17:22:27 <h01ger> do you think one talk room was good or bad?
17:22:38 <gregoa> I think one talk room was just fine
17:22:44 <petn-randall> same
17:23:13 <gregoa> and its size was also ok
17:23:38 <petn-randall> two tracks would also work, but I don't know if we'd be able to fill it up with content.
17:23:41 <h01ger> oh, btw, another data point: we only used 2/3 of the big talk room, and that was good enough for 60 people. so, 3/3 will be good for 90 people, which means the debconf can be attended by 120 or so people, because there is no talk where *everyone* will attend
17:23:54 * gregoa nods
17:24:22 <h01ger> (from) next year there will also be another cellar room which normally is a bar, which we could turn into a hackspace
17:24:38 <gregoa> \o/
17:24:43 <georg> I agree regarding the room, one was just fine
17:25:05 * h01ger also had a post mortem meeting with dock europe and suggested to them that some extra fux keys would be nice, to give to people (who dont stay in the venue) to come early or stay late, so they can open doors
17:25:09 <gregoa> has been been any feedback re standups/penaries during debcamp?
17:25:22 <h01ger> gregoa: i loved them
17:25:45 <gregoa> cool :) did you hear something from others afterwards?
17:26:12 <h01ger> only meta. that some people learned what others did, which in turn led to more talks and joined work
17:26:18 <h01ger> "only" :)
17:26:32 <gregoa> great
17:27:12 <georg> standups: thumbs up
17:27:21 <olasd> for talks, MiniDebConf Cambridge does one wiki page per talk with a title and an abstract
17:27:35 <h01ger> i also think 150 thirts "for 90 attendees" work very well: we needed 15 more for sponsors and offsite helpers, plus 15 for cantina and dock europe and then we have few leftovers only
17:27:37 <olasd> (sorry, on mobile, pretty laggy)
17:28:08 <h01ger> re: shirt distribution: overall very good, but: mehr 4XL (bzw überhaupt) und mehr kinder größen, auch mehr M. (hatten ein wenig zuviel L und XL)
17:28:24 <h01ger> sorry for the german, minor details and me lazy
17:28:38 <gregoa> .oO( debian people shrinking? )
17:29:36 <nattie> (hi, sorry i'm late)
17:29:40 <petn-randall> Hi nattie
17:29:45 <h01ger> hi nattie
17:29:52 <h01ger> #save
17:29:59 <h01ger> nattie: backlog is at http://meetbot.debian.net/debconf-hamburg/2018/debconf-hamburg.2018-06-06-16.59.log.html
17:31:04 <h01ger> nattie: anything to say about impressions / feedback?
17:31:20 <h01ger> else/after that, /me thinks we are mostly done with feedback & impressions and suggest to move on to "improvements"
17:31:57 <olasd> for video it was *really nice* to have the room for the full camp
17:31:58 <nattie> h01ger: let me just think for a moment - i only just got in
17:32:15 <h01ger> olasd: nattie: nods
17:32:31 <nattie> i agree about a CMS for registration and so on - the event turned out bigger than we expected, and bigger than a wiki can really handle
17:32:46 <nattie> tumbleweed did say we should just use wafer next year, not sure how serious he was
17:32:49 <h01ger> oh, one more thing from me: it was great that joey popped up the day after the minidebconf and wrote invoices and paid invoices
17:32:57 <petn-randall> Jepp. I'd like to prepare that well in advance, should be doable with not too much effort.
17:33:00 <olasd> I'm done (and I need to run), <3 and hugs
17:33:01 <gregoa> it was nice to come home and watch the videos of talks that I missed due to leaving in the afternoon. kudos to the video team!
17:33:13 <h01ger> olasd: o/ & hugs back
17:33:33 <petn-randall> (re CMS)
17:33:48 <petn-randall> olasd: See you and thanks for joining :)
17:33:55 <georg> olasd: thanks && cu
17:34:05 <nattie> petn-randall: talk to tumbleweed and olasd about wafer perhaps?
17:34:06 <h01ger> nattie: anything else?
17:34:14 <nattie> yes, just a moment, formulating
17:34:34 <nattie> i think i'd like an alias for rooms next time, like the content team has, but that's a nice-tp-have
17:34:56 * h01ger nods
17:35:09 <nattie> also, now that we're familiar with the venue, we can document the accommodation offer a lot more explicitly, so that people who don't read the venue website know what to expect
17:35:47 <nattie> the breakfast thing was also kind of tricky/awkward/delicate, and i think if it's possible to somehow negotiate the pauschale to include that next time (even if a bit more expensive) that's probably better
17:35:58 <h01ger> nattie: we have another topic, "improvements" coming once you are done :)
17:36:10 <nattie> oh, yeah, sorry.  i was just summarising some of my Lessons Learnt
17:36:19 <h01ger> next topic then?
17:36:23 * h01ger needs to leave in 23min
17:36:32 <petn-randall> sure, let's move on
17:36:37 <gregoa> +1
17:36:53 <h01ger> #topic 2. suggestions for improvements
17:36:53 <georg> +1
17:37:22 <georg> some more keys for external ppl (written above already)
17:37:27 <h01ger> my list is: a.) have a dedicate budget person on-site. takes load from me :)
17:37:27 <petn-randall> I'd say 1) CMS for registration/talks.
17:37:49 <petn-randall> heh
17:37:53 <h01ger> b.) split frontdesk and reception. frontdesk definitly needs a team of 2 or better 3 people. reception must be another person/team
17:37:58 <nattie> georg: if keys are obtainable, sure.  keys for orga members who aren't staying onsite is a good plan
17:38:04 <Tincho> sorry, I was afk; my opinion on tracks and talks and all that is that keeping things simple is great for organisers, and having only one track makes it possible to also do some work. if you are swamped with talks, you can't get anything done
17:38:05 <petn-randall> h01ger: Care to elaborate? re budget person on-site.
17:38:12 <h01ger> c:) frontdesk & reception need to be reachable via irc
17:38:40 <nattie> h01ger: at regular debconf this is a thing.  next year we can set up for that
17:39:05 <nattie> i'd also move the frontdesk out of the hacklab
17:39:08 <h01ger> petn-randall: i had support offer from offsite, that didnt work, so i was forced to also do the budget. having a dedicated person for budget is better
17:39:38 <h01ger> nattie: we discussed+decided having frontdesk on the corridor, then this decision was reverted…
17:40:09 <nattie> h01ger: the location it ended up in was only meant to be temporary, for during camp, and then it never got moved
17:40:19 <petn-randall> How would the tasks be split up between frontdesk and reception exactly?
17:40:31 <h01ger> d.) for dock-europe i came up with a checklist, as it turned out that not informing the attendees properly caused all kinds of problems after the event.
17:40:43 <h01ger> not sure if i should paste my 10 lines checklist here or on paste.d.n.
17:40:50 <georg> in here
17:41:01 <h01ger> petn-randall: reception is not debconf reception but "bed reception"
17:41:11 <h01ger> ok, so my checklist is:
17:41:21 <h01ger> _____________________ persons email address
17:41:21 <h01ger> breakfast is optional, 5€ day
17:41:21 <h01ger> [ ] person wants breakfast
17:41:21 <h01ger> using linen/bedsheets is *not* optional. linen/bedsheets and towel are provided, cost 6€ once.
17:41:21 <h01ger> [ ] person was told this, cleaning is 40€
17:41:22 <h01ger> if person doesnt want an invoice, paying per cash is fine.
17:41:24 <h01ger> if person wants an invoice or wants to pay via money transfer, we need a complete postal address.
17:41:24 <gregoa> regarding offsite accomodoation (the low number of beds at dock europe is a bit sad): have people been happy with the options and the information? by chance I saw a hostel just around the corner which might be interesting as well, for individuals or for pre-reserving rooms: http://homeport-hostel.hotelsinhamburg.net/en/
17:41:24 <h01ger> _____________________ full name
17:41:27 <h01ger> _____________________ street address informtion
17:41:27 <h01ger> _____________________ city/zip/etc
17:41:29 <h01ger> ______________________state
17:41:29 <h01ger> [ ] person were told paying options
17:41:50 <gregoa> (oops, wrong time for pressing enter)
17:41:58 <h01ger> :)
17:42:01 <Tincho> h01ger: maybe all the accommodation could be offset to dock europe, and not have to worry about it at all
17:42:18 <h01ger> i forgot one line:
17:42:20 <h01ger> earplus are advisable (there might be loud music)
17:42:25 <nattie> Tincho: that sounds like a good idea, the only problem is that they're not always staffed when people appear
17:42:40 <petn-randall> Did dock europe have more capacity? If yes, we could arrange for people to book early and get a larger contingent.
17:42:54 <h01ger> Tincho: they are not there late at night, they dont know us, etc. its much better if someone from us is responsible for us
17:42:57 <Tincho> nattie: maybe they can manage everything but handing out the keys
17:42:59 <h01ger> s#for#from#
17:43:10 <Tincho> I mean about payment, reservations, invoices, etc
17:43:12 <h01ger> petn-randall: no, 34 beds it is
17:43:56 <h01ger> Tincho: i think we can do it nicely
17:44:53 <petn-randall> I'm sure if we get the structure right, and the orga early, we can easier get more volunteers because the tasks are clear.
17:45:44 <nattie> one thing that we definitely need to tell people about is the double-bed situation
17:45:55 <Tincho> h01ger: your choice.. just saying that for suncamp it was great not having to worry about it :)
17:46:03 <nattie> i think it only affects two rooms, but some people really didn't want to stay in the double beds
17:46:11 <h01ger> its also now only clear to me that nattie was overloaded with the job at hand. she alone took jobs for 4… (frontdesk needs 2-3 people, bed reception 1-2)
17:46:35 <h01ger> Tincho: suncamp takes place in a real hotel, with 24/7 staff (AIUI)
17:46:39 <petn-randall> indeed
17:46:54 <nattie> i'm willing to deal with room requests and keys, next time
17:46:58 <nattie> and FD obviously
17:47:17 <petn-randall> nattie: We'll need more people though, since you can't be awake 24/7.
17:47:19 <h01ger> nattie: no, you shouldnt do frontdesk and bed reception at once again
17:47:21 <nattie> but the billing thing was really quite stressful, but we have a lot more knowledge now
17:47:50 <nattie> h01ger: i only said keys :)
17:48:08 <nattie> billing and stuff i would definitely want to give to someone else to deal with
17:48:11 <h01ger> nattie: ja, nein. keys and billing need to go hand in hand, else its double or triple work
17:48:31 <nattie> there's the problem of people arriving very late
17:48:39 <nattie> as quite a lot of people did this time around
17:48:55 <petn-randall> Indeed, that's why I'd spread the load over several people.
17:48:56 <nattie> and we can't expect Dock Europe staff to wait around for vereinzelt late arrivals
17:49:05 <nattie> oh, absolutely
17:49:10 <h01ger> next topic?
17:49:11 <gregoa> (this is getting a bit detailed now)
17:49:16 <petn-randall> sure
17:49:19 <nattie> we can discuss the rest after
17:49:34 <h01ger> #topic 3. stuff left to do
17:50:09 * h01ger needs to finish budget, make sure invoices were paid (in both directions), receive one last invoice from ccchh…
17:50:19 * petn-randall paid the invoice.
17:50:31 <h01ger> and we need to get the dg-i banner back. azeem, could you maybe ping them again? its at my house atm
17:50:53 * georg still waits for refund, will ask again next week if the situation is unchanged still then
17:50:59 <h01ger> and i want to do said summary post (to my blog and debconf-team@l.d.o)
17:51:23 <h01ger> some sprint reports are also missing (edu is being written, no sure if others are missing)
17:51:29 <h01ger> anything else missing / left to do?
17:52:06 <georg> next topic?
17:53:39 <petn-randall> +1
17:54:11 <h01ger> #topic 4. next year / again?
17:54:19 <petn-randall> Definitely!
17:54:31 * h01ger doesnt want to discuss this topic until everything is done and until 6 weeks have passed at least
17:54:35 <gregoa> I'd come again :)
17:54:51 <georg> I would join the orga team, if needed
17:54:57 * h01ger has noticed some enthusiasm of doing it again. also from dock europe & cantina & ccchh :)
17:55:07 <georg> so...next topic? ;)
17:55:08 <petn-randall> yay \o/
17:55:10 <nattie> yeah, i'm up for it, and i'm even up for being orga again, because i'm a masochist
17:55:19 <georg> #save
17:55:27 <nattie> yeah, Björn seemed quite happy at the thought of having us again so yeah
17:55:27 <h01ger> #save
17:56:01 <gregoa> I think Pfingsten/pentecost is a nice date
17:56:04 <h01ger> #topic 5. AOB
17:56:22 <h01ger> pfingsten next year is june 6th or 9th though (or was it 11th? quite late anyway)
17:56:34 <h01ger> though i do like the free monday after minidebconf too
17:57:31 <nattie> i like the idea of Pfingsten, even if it is quite late next year
17:58:33 <gregoa> (Pfingstsonntag 2019 So 09.06.2019)
17:58:42 * h01ger likes to get more feedback on possible dates…
17:58:47 <petn-randall> works for me, I have no strong opinion about the dates.
17:59:00 <georg> no opinion on this
17:59:02 * h01ger thanks everybody for attending & for making this minidebconf happen!
17:59:04 <gregoa> sure, it's not essential
17:59:18 <gregoa> h01ger: thanks also for this after-meeting!
17:59:18 <georg> h01ger: thank you!
17:59:30 <petn-randall> h01ger: Much thanks!
17:59:41 <h01ger> :)
17:59:50 <h01ger> thank you toooooooo!
17:59:53 <h01ger> #endmeeting