17:58:53 <tobi> #startmeeting 17:58:53 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Jul 8 17:58:53 2020 UTC. The chair is tobi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:58:53 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:00 <tobi> # role call 17:59:04 <nattie> heya 17:59:05 <tobi> you know the drill. 17:59:07 <nattie> is there an agenda? 17:59:23 <DLange> o/ howdie 17:59:24 <tobi> who needs agendas … 17:59:44 <DLange> Topic 1: Do we or don't we? (cf. Corona) :D 17:59:49 <azeem> hi 18:00:10 <azeem> is https://pad.riseup.net/p/_LxboIZseHrFVy-FF6t6 still from the last meeting? 18:00:27 <tobi> well, it got deleted in between 18:00:43 <tobi> thats why is is so .. empy .. 18:00:44 <DLange> lol, riseup pads 18:01:17 <tobi> so everyone raised their hands for the role call? 18:01:29 <tobi> then lets move on… 18:01:39 <tobi> #topic Topic 1: Do we or don't we? (cf. Corona) :D 18:01:41 <azeem> we didn't ping startmeeting, but oh well 18:01:51 <nattie> we kinda did 18:01:57 <tobi> MeetBot: pingall meeting started! 18:01:57 <MeetBot> meeting started! 18:01:57 <MeetBot> adrianacc azeem dario` DLange georg gregoa h01ger ivodd jochensp marga marvil07 MeetBot MoepMan[m] nattie nattiemh[m] olasd petn-randall silwol Sprinterfreak tobi tosch_ urbec wastl[m] 18:01:57 <MeetBot> meeting started! 18:02:02 <tobi> ;-) 18:02:14 <DLange> wakeup call :) 18:02:21 <tosch_> moin 18:02:30 <tobi> I guess those not here yet can read the backlock ;) 18:02:44 <azeem> tobi: so what's your opinion? 18:02:53 <tobi> So let me report from the local team about the topic DLange suggested… 18:03:31 <tobi> We've of course discussed this and I also talked to several people in the Debian community how they feal about. 18:03:51 <h01ger> & what does the uni say? 18:04:12 <tobi> The majority of the people I've talked with and my local team are in favour to continue the planning. 18:04:55 <tobi> We will not know if it will be possible at this point of time, though we are quite confident. 18:05:52 <tobi> The highest risk is are whether the rules in Bavaria will be lifted or not in time. 18:06:04 <tobi> not lifted of course. 18:06:16 <petn-randall> The other thing to think about is how many would even attend in that case. 18:06:18 <h01ger> nope. the highest risk is people get infected 18:06:35 <azeem> I guess the current rules are so that we could actually go ahead? But yeah, the question si whether we should? 18:07:00 <tobi> azeem: Likely. But not 100% clear. 18:07:32 <petn-randall> *IF* we go ahead, I think we could come up with ways to keep the infection rate low. 18:07:35 <tobi> The current situation (current as in July 8th) is that is is not allowed to enter univerities. 18:07:42 <azeem> ah ok 18:08:30 <nattie> how likely is this to change in 2 1/2 months? 18:08:33 <DLange> well, what is the latest reasonable date to decide? 18:08:34 <azeem> when is the winter term starting? can we expect that the restrictions are only lifted at the beginning of it? 18:08:58 <DLange> because we fared well with deciding late for DebConf20 18:09:24 <DLange> the more we know the better we can decide 18:10:03 <tobi> petn-randall: yes, exactly. I expect that we will have a Hygiene-Konzept. 18:10:59 <tobi> The professor helping organizing is quite confident that the restrictions will be lifted. 18:11:04 <azeem> maybe we can consider a hybrid approach? I.e. let people submit talks for remote and play them on-site in case the latter is possible, but don't expect all of the speakers to be present? 18:11:16 <azeem> might pose some additional challenges to the local video-team 18:11:40 <tobi> azeem: yes, this was one idea we want pursuit to allow remote speakers. 18:12:08 <tobi> though, I'll be frank with you, there will be no online-only minidebconf this autumn in Regensburg. 18:12:39 <azeem> what would that even be? 18:13:03 <tobi> exactly. it would make no sense. 18:13:22 <tobi> ok, back to reporting :) 18:13:32 <azeem> what about having it outside as much as possible? 18:14:12 <DLange> these things change over the next weeks or months 18:14:27 <azeem> the weather you mean? 18:14:35 <DLange> that, too :) 18:14:40 <h01ger> so, have another irc meeting in 4 weeks? 18:14:41 <DLange> should we not discuss inside / outside / Hygiene-Konzepte and local regulations when we need to decide 18:14:53 <DLange> now this is a bit Kaffeesatzlesen 18:15:02 <tobi> as said, together (local team and myself) we've decided to go ahead with the plannings and we will open up registration shortly to find out whether there is enough interest considering the circumstances. 18:15:16 <azeem> ok 18:15:47 <DLange> that's fine. Just clearly communicate that you are getting feedback and decide to go ahead or not with the Mini-DC on a fixed date. Which you please specify. 18:15:50 <tobi> we will have of course a bit fat disclaimer that it is very possible to have it cancelled on short notice. 18:16:00 <azeem> though probably it makes sense to add an disclaimer that you will possible postpone the minidebconf 18:16:07 <azeem> heh 18:16:20 <DLange> yep, may get you a GR less :) 18:16:54 <tobi> yes, good point, azeem. 18:16:57 <h01ger> there was no GR 18:17:30 <tobi> when we find out that is not possible, we will try to shift it into spring next year. 18:17:55 <tobi> (There is of course no guarantees too…) 18:18:43 <DLange> h01ger: not for DC20, but may be for Mini-DC Regensburg? Never know who's feeling to ruffle some feathers in Debian. 18:18:43 <tobi> Regarding deadline to decide: Yes we will have one. (I've to cross check with my local team, i think I lost it at the moment) 18:19:19 <azeem> I guess question is whether we open the cfp before we are somewhat sure that something will happen 18:19:37 <DLange> what is your gut feeling for when you need to cut off due to venue and T-Shirts? 18:19:39 <tobi> No, we need to open the cfp 18:19:52 <DLange> those are probably the longest running obligations 18:20:07 * h01ger doesnt expect much turnout from the cfp as long as its unclear whether the event will happen 18:20:14 <tobi> venue is currently "flying on sight", so they are at the moment not helpful. We've not signed anything yet, so we are safe on that 18:20:16 <azeem> right, I'm with h01ger 18:20:32 <azeem> debconf proper cfp turnout was really low 18:20:33 <DLange> DC20 experience is that few people submitted talks while they were not sure about the conference format 18:21:12 <DLange> so you'll get rather few proposals probably. Didn't help much to decide either way. People just don't put work into their proposals until they know the boundary conditions are settled. 18:21:16 <tobi> I fear that too… But I fear too that there will not be enought data to decide before August. 18:21:52 <azeem> if you allow (some) online only speakers, you might get debconf re-runs, but then it might just be a glorified debconf-everywhere 18:21:56 <azeem> with some latency 18:22:05 <DLange> ack 18:22:13 <DLange> for DC20 we got registration data and did a survey to decide 18:22:52 <DLange> I think you can just ask people to register interest (~pre-registration) on a wiki page as see whether enough want to come 18:22:59 <tobi> On the other side it won't hurt to open up CFPs. 18:23:03 <azeem> my advise would be to open the registration ASAP (as it's totally pain-free, assuming we use the wiki again), and then decide on the cfp a bit later 18:23:04 <DLange> but I'd do this the two weeks before you need to decide 18:23:17 <DLange> as people then will know more whether they want to register than they do now 18:23:19 <nattie> i guess you could open the CfP with a disclaimer that the dates might change? 18:23:28 <azeem> could also do 18:23:34 <tobi> nattie: yes. 18:23:41 <tobi> that was our plan. 18:23:47 <azeem> then we need to know whether we expect speakers to be on-site or not 18:25:02 <tobi> as said, there will be no online-only conference. 18:25:22 <DLange> yeah, but if you present, you want to know at which possible dates 18:25:39 <DLange> because you will not present if you cannot (or don't want to) travel 18:26:11 <h01ger> how likely is a date change? 18:26:35 <tobi> if we postpone, it will be 2021. 18:26:43 <azeem> there's also a difference between online-only and some-speakers-present-remotely 18:26:53 <tobi> (If I can bribe petn-randall enough) 18:27:03 <azeem> right, so maybe we should ask him first 18:27:11 <azeem> when was berlin planned? 18:27:45 <tobi> (I've talked already with him, but we concluded that we need to see how things work out.) 18:27:54 <azeem> ok 18:28:22 <tobi> ASAIK there is no date for Berlin yet. 18:28:36 <azeem> so I guess we can open the cfp, solicit talks from people who agree to be on-site this september, and when we postpone, we can ask them if they can make next spring as well 18:28:54 <azeem> I'm just not very optimistic that we get a lot of submissions 18:28:54 <petn-randall> FYI, I'm fine with RBG happening in 2021, and actually I'd prefer that, too. 18:29:31 <petn-randall> I just don't think the turnout will be high if it happens in September, as there are still restriction in place everywhere. 18:29:34 <nattie> isn't there a bunch of big events happening at the uni in RBG next year though? 18:29:37 <azeem> so yeah, maybe in order to have a nice RGB (RBG?) miniDebConf it might be better to bump now 18:29:58 <azeem> spring is kina winter break maybe? 18:30:02 <azeem> kinda* 18:30:08 * h01ger has reserved fux for pfingsten 2021... not sure about the format & anything yet 18:31:15 <tobi> nattie: right. The "Dekan" told me last summer that availabilty will be limited… 18:31:45 <petn-randall> There's also no plan (yet) for Berlin's mini-debconf, as c-base is closed until further notice. 18:34:11 <tobi> Ok, I guess that is the report. Difficult times and there is no silver bullet… 18:34:32 * tobi wonders who had the idea of a MDC Regensburg… 18:34:54 <DLange> hehe, he's quite a nice guy and not responsible for pandemics 18:35:01 <petn-randall> This ^ :) 18:35:30 <azeem> tobi: so maybe add a column "would give a talk" to the registration table 18:35:40 <tobi> will do 18:35:51 <azeem> and/or let's discuss where to send the registration/cfp open mail? 18:36:03 <h01ger> that column sounds like a good idea to me as well 18:36:13 <h01ger> also +1 on what DLange said last 18:36:28 <azeem> debian-events-eu? sending it to d-d-a might bring people out who think we are crazy to even suggest it 18:37:56 <tobi> d-e-eu is probably fine. 18:38:08 <tobi> (this is probably our target audience this time) 18:38:11 <azeem> debconf-discuss? 18:38:27 <DLange> I'm all for using d-d-a 18:38:45 <DLange> because the folks that want to throw a fuss can anyways 18:38:52 <tobi> true. 18:39:16 <DLange> get the info out, say we are considering options and want to know who things they can and want to travel to R'burg 18:39:19 <tobi> I will have a sentence in it that says that I believe we are all adults and able to decide for ourselves. 18:39:19 <h01ger> i think -events-eu is better, because its just an "idea" atm and because the audience is more correct 18:39:21 <azeem> I'm on the fence, I'd go for another list, but bring in larjona to publizice it on social media (with the mentioned disclaimer) 18:39:31 <DLange> but please give a decision date once the local team has agreed on one 18:39:38 <azeem> +1 18:39:41 <h01ger> if it happens, sure mail d-d-a, but right now... 18:40:15 <DLange> not nice to keep it lingering for those that want to travel and for those that are weary of us deciding to not cancel everything right away 18:40:18 <azeem> right, so let's have the cfp close like 2 weeks after the cut-off point, so that we an mention it again in the go-announcement 18:42:18 <tobi> I'll discuss this with my local team. 18:43:23 <tobi> But be aware that even if we declare a cut-off date, situation might still ... esaclate ... later so that we are forced to cancel past that cut off date. 18:43:36 <azeem> I guess, yeah 18:43:53 <h01ger> tobi: i guess we're all aware of the new life by now... 18:43:53 <tobi> noone said it gonna be easy… 18:44:23 * tobi looking for the meetbot cheat sheet… 18:44:43 <tobi> #action tobi: decide with the local team about a cutoff date 18:44:44 <azeem> as topic hasn't changed, I guess meetbot isn't active? 18:45:04 <tobi> … I did a startmeeting 18:45:29 <h01ger> but you didnt say #topic 18:45:52 <azeem> ah right 18:45:52 <DLange> single topic meeting anyways, not? :) 18:45:55 * tobi and Meetbot… will we be ever be friends– 18:46:05 <tobi> #topic Make Meetboot happy 18:46:37 <tobi> #action tobi: decide with the local team about a cutoff date 18:46:45 <azeem> so will we open registration/cfp before you decide with your local team? 18:46:49 <tobi> … didnt do anything … 18:47:00 <azeem> or do meet here again afterwards to decide on that? 18:47:04 <h01ger> try #save and check meetbot.d.n 18:47:13 <tobi> #save 18:47:45 <tobi> there is something. 18:48:18 <tobi> my localteam is not in irc, so I will need to do that afterwards. 18:48:38 <h01ger> i cannot change /topic so i guess meetbot neither. thats why :) 18:48:57 <tobi> I'd like to have the decission date in the mail. 18:49:11 <tobi> so, yes, that should be set before. 18:49:12 <h01ger> +1 18:50:34 <h01ger> & going afk now. lets hope an event is sensibly doable in 3 months! cheers..! o/ 18:50:36 <tobi> I guess enough about that topic? Any further remarks? 18:51:12 <DLange> I think we're all good. 18:51:32 <tobi> #topic fincancial 18:52:14 <tobi> Just a quick note. I've asked peb to tell me about money, and ASAIK all our sponsors have paid. 18:52:26 <tobi> So budget is good. 18:52:51 <tobi> On the downside, there are two sponsors how promised but not materilized… 18:53:00 <DLange> Cool. Just a general remark: consider updating sponsors on what the current status is once you communicate to Debian mailing lists, sponsors do not necessarily read these. 18:53:27 <DLange> we'll probably need less money than originally anticipated as fewer people will come 18:53:37 <azeem> and/or the other way round - some sponsors might read the list and be pissed off they haven't heard from you befoer 18:53:38 <DLange> so fewer T-Shirts and less food 18:53:40 <azeem> before* 18:53:57 <DLange> ack to what azeem says 18:54:14 <tobi> yes. 18:55:07 <tobi> it is possible that remote atendees will also get a shirt. We have not decided that, but that would mean a bit of shipping-cost overhead… 18:55:37 <tobi> (that was an idea we had) 18:55:47 <tobi> otherwise, lets close the meeting… 18:55:49 <azeem> puh, my personal opinion is that it's not worth it, nor to be expected 18:56:05 <petn-randall> +1 18:56:11 <azeem> I guess it falls into the what-to-do-with-surplus-money category 18:56:18 <tobi> yeah. 18:56:36 <tobi> as said, just a crazy idea atm. 18:56:58 <tobi> ok, lets not drag this… ready to close? 18:57:04 <azeem> next meeting? 18:57:10 <tobi> in 2 weeks? 18:57:13 <azeem> +1 18:57:27 <DLange> "this is your goodie bag with Weißwurst, Brezln and a T-Shirt from Regensburg" :) 18:57:27 <tobi> same time? 18:57:39 <DLange> an hour earlier? 18:57:44 <tobi> oh, we gonna need express shipping then 18:57:59 <tobi> DLange: fine with me 18:58:08 <petn-randall> fine by me, too 18:58:10 <nattie> 1700 UTC? 18:58:15 <DLange> ack 18:58:39 <tobi> nattie and her timezone kinks… 18:58:49 <tobi> ok, 19:00 CEST it is… 18:58:52 <nattie> it's the most straightforward timezone! 18:59:03 <petn-randall> So Wednesday, July 22 1700 UTC it is. 18:59:18 <tobi> +1! 18:59:28 <DLange> #info next meeting Wednesday, July 22 1700 UTC 18:59:32 <DLange> o/ MeetBot :) 18:59:54 <azeem> thx 18:59:58 <tobi> https://pad.riseup.net/p/_LxboIZseHrFVy-FF6t6 19:00:14 <tobi> #endmeeting